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Thread: AWC with PMUP

  1. #1
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    Unhappy AWC with PMUP

    Hi,

    I am automating my WC system so i need some help on the programming.
    Already did some coding but i have some trouble synchronising the waste pump with the clean pump in order to work properly.

    I attach a drawing with the real names of my sensors and pumps.
    The plan i am thinking is like this :

    water change every day in some hour i will decide.
    System is designed to make the water change without turning off the main pump.

    Level of the water when start the procedure is at ATK_low
    Sensor status : CLOSED means water OPEN means no water

    Steps:
    (first of all ATK off)
    1. start the drain pump. ( water level at ATK_low)
    2.when the water level of the sump reach the sensor WC_low stop the drain.
    3.When WC_low is open ( open means level have reached this sensor)
    4.Start the Clean_pump
    5.when the water level reach again the ATK_low stop the Clean_pump

    Can anyone help me on this ? i hope i explained them simple enough

    5117294-white-background-image.png

  2. #2
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    Is it so difficult no one can answer?

  3. #3
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotsoym View Post
    Is it so difficult no one can answer?
    Just incredibly time consuming. See this post to get a starting point

    https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...er-Change-help

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Just incredibly time consuming. See this post to get a starting point

    https://forum.neptunesystems.com/sho...er-Change-help

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I didnt understand much so i can post my code which the only problem i have is how to control properly the drain pump.
    Here we go :

    AWC:

    Set OFF
    If Time 23:00 to 23:25 Then ON

    Waste_control :

    If WC_low OPEN Then OFF
    If ATK_lo CLOSED Then ON


    LOW_switch:

    If WC_low OPEN Then ON
    If ATK_lo CLOSED Then OFF
    If ATK_hi CLOSED Then OFF
    If Output AWC = OFF Then OFF


    Waste_pump:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output Waste_change = ON Then ON
    If SUB_LO OPEN Then OFF


    Clean_pump:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output Low_Switch = ON Then ON
    If Output Low_Switch = OFF Then OFF
    If ATK_lo CLOSED Then OFF

    Problem is that drain pump does not work as it should work.
    I need to find a way to give a signal when the drain reach the Wc_low to stop and wait for the clean pump to fill until the ATK_low and the turn off until AWC RE-activates

  5. #5
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    Also can you explain the defer statements here ?

    PMUP Drain:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output AllowDrain = ON Then ON
    If AWC_Lo OPEN Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:10 Then OFF

    PMUP Refill:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output AllowFill = ON Then ON
    If ATK_Lo CLOSED Then OFF
    If ATK_Hi CLOSED Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:10 Then OFF

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Thise defers are there for filtering so that a quick splash doesn't cause it to misoperate and also to allow a small amount of time to make sure the return has stabilized the level completely. They can be tuned to your liking, but 10 seconds works in most cases. Very large tanks need a little longer and very small tanks can go smaller.

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  7. #7
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    Waste_pump:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output Waste_change = ON Then ON
    If SUB_LO OPEN Then OFF

    If I add <<Defer 010:00 then OFF>> in the end

    What will happen?


  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotsoym View Post
    Waste_pump:

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output Waste_change = ON Then ON
    If SUB_LO OPEN Then OFF

    If I add <<Defer 010:00 then OFF>> in the end

    What will happen?

    The pump would continue to run until the low switch has been OPEN for 10 minutes continuously.

    The way you give it a 10 minute window to operate, which is what I assume you were trying to do with that change, actually needs to be done in a separate virtual outlet. That's what those AllowFill and AllowDrain VOs do in the example thread I linked.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  9. #9
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    What I want to say is this :

    IF the AWC is on then ON
    If the AWC is off then OFF

    So I start the drain pump to run until WC_low is open.
    When it reach the open state then remain off for X amount of time in order to give the AWC time to get off and the drain pump will become off too

  10. #10
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    It works perfectly..
    I dont know how but it works like charm.
    please help me how to turn AWC only 3 days a week?
    for example Monday wednesday Friday ?

  11. #11
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    Add

    If DOW S-T-T-S Then OFF

    To the outlet that triggers the AWC.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
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    Yesterday i moved lower the WC_Low sensor and i dont know why but i stopped before reaching the sensor and then it started draining again...
    i dont understand why..Any idea on the code?
    i set the AWC outlet to run for 25 minutes but it didnt reach this time

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotsoym View Post
    Yesterday i moved lower the WC_Low sensor and i dont know why but i stopped before reaching the sensor and then it started draining again...
    i dont understand why..Any idea on the code?
    i set the AWC outlet to run for 25 minutes but it didnt reach this time
    You didn't post your current code, so no idea.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    Sorry my mistake you are right :

    AWC :

    Set OFF
    If Time 23:10 to 23:35 Then ON
    If ATK_hi CLOSED Then OFF
    If WC_low OPEN Then OFF
    If Output RetPump = OFF Then OFF
    Min Time 020:00 Then ON

    AllowDrain:

    Set OFF
    If Output AWC = ON Then ON
    If Output AllowFill = ON Then OFF

    AllowFill :

    Set OFF
    If Output AWC = ON Then ON
    If WC_low OPEN Then ON
    Defer 010:00 Then ON

    Waste_pump (real outlet):

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output AllowDrain = ON Then ON
    If WC_low OPEN Then OFF
    If SUB_LO OPEN Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:10 Then OFF

    Clean_pump (real outlet) :

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output AllowFill = ON Then ON
    If ATK_lo CLOSED Then OFF
    If ATK_hi CLOSED Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:20 Then OFF

    Wc_low is the sensor where i want to end the drain
    Sub_low its a float sensor over the return pump just in case anything happens

  15. #15
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The min time in AWC should be 25 minutes not 20, but I dont think that is the issue. Watch your switch states during a scheduled or test change and see if any are activating when they shouldn't.

    You also shouldn't have the WC_low statement in the allow fill outlet.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The min time in AWC should be 25 minutes not 20, but I dont think that is the issue. Watch your switch states during a scheduled or test change and see if any are activating when they shouldn't.

    You also shouldn't have the WC_low statement in the allow fill outlet.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    And how will it know when to stop the Allowfill?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotsoym View Post
    And how will it know when to stop the Allowfill?
    It will stop the allows based on time. The pumps themselves will stop within those time windows based on switch state.

    If you were to keep that line in, if the water level dropped because of a leak or failed ATO, your fill pump would be allowed to run in error.

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  18. #18
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    I wan the water change to be based on sensors and not time..
    Time on the AWC its just another safety measure to shut everything down.

    On the code i dont understand how the Allowfill and Cleanpump actually works..

    AllowFill :

    Set OFF
    If Output AWC = ON Then ON
    If WC_low OPEN Then ON
    Defer 010:00 Then ON

    This mean will be ON all the time when AWC is on which does not make sense...
    it should be on when the WC_low point has been reached.

    Clean_pump (real outlet) :

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output AllowFill = ON Then ON
    If ATK_lo CLOSED Then OFF
    If ATK_hi CLOSED Then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:20 Then OFF

    This should also be on all the time but somehow it is not..

  19. #19
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The way I recommended has a time "window" that each stage can run. The allows should be just those time windows and the defer in AllowFill is what creates the window.

    The change is still permissive by the switch states so effectively it runs based on those. If you take that line out of allow fill as I recommended, what will happen is the drain will stop when either the low switch is reached or 10 minutes elapse, whichever occurs first. The Fill will start exactly 10 minutes after the drain started regardless of how long the drain was actually run for.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The way I recommended has a time "window" that each stage can run. The allows should be just those time windows and the defer in AllowFill is what creates the window.

    The change is still permissive by the switch states so effectively it runs based on those. If you take that line out of allow fill as I recommended, what will happen is the drain will stop when either the low switch is reached or 10 minutes elapse, whichever occurs first. The Fill will start exactly 10 minutes after the drain started regardless of how long the drain was actually run for.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I just checked and I it works perfect now just by giving some more time to the AllowFill (on the Defer from 10 to 15 minutes).
    But you said 10 minutes elapse OR when the low switch reached whoever occurred first..
    the Low switch reached on the 12 minute but the Allow_fill didn't start..It was just waiting and on the 15 minute it started..

    Everything works perfect now but I just wonder to solve this in my head

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotsoym View Post
    I just checked and I it works perfect now just by giving some more time to the AllowFill (on the Defer from 10 to 15 minutes).
    But you said 10 minutes elapse OR when the low switch reached whoever occurred first..
    the Low switch reached on the 12 minute but the Allow_fill didn't start..It was just waiting and on the 15 minute it started..

    Everything works perfect now but I just wonder to solve this in my head
    That is expected. The drain would stop at 12 minutes in that example and for the next 3 minutes neither would be on. The fill starts at 15 minutes regardless.

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  22. #22
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    So actually the line : If WC_low Open then ON in the Allowfill is useless ??
    Because the Drain Stops at the WC_low so Allowfill should start at that point..Because you said its the one or the other


    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    That is expected. The drain would stop at 12 minutes in that example and for the next 3 minutes neither would be on. The fill starts at 15 minutes regardless.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kotsoym View Post
    So actually the line : If WC_low Open then ON in the Allowfill is useless ??
    Because the Drain Stops at the WC_low so Allowfill should start at that point..Because you said its the one or the other
    There is no reliable way to have the fill start the moment the low switch opens. Defer applies globally, so the way you have it, it would start the fill after 15 minutes elapsed or 15 minutes after the low switch was open continuously. The latter will never occur during an AWC cycle.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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