Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Program changes for UPS/Battery backup

  1. #1
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Sydney Australia GMT+10
    Posts
    194

    Program changes for UPS/Battery backup

    Hi all,

    I have just implemented a CyberPower 1500 UPS for my tank and Apex, and want to change my Apex program to accomodate this. In my installation the Apex EB6 is connected to the UPS, and the EB6 powers my Main Heater, Return Pump, Wavemaker and Skimmer. All other equipment is connected via the mains power. The Apex has a Auxiliary power adapter connected to the mains for outage detection.

    I do have a backup heater, but it is intentionally not connected to the Apex for separate redundancy, and I just rely on the internal thermostat, which is set just below 25 C. This is mains power connected so would be off during an outage.

    I would like to allow for a 2 stage approach during an outage.
    1. Initially keep all EB6 devices running.
    2. If the outage exceeds a threshold (e.g. 60 mins) shut down less important equipment and allow temperature to drop a little to extend the life of the UPS to run the return pump and keep temperature above the new low limit.

    Could you please review the program below and let me know if you suggest any changes?

    Thanks in advance!

    [ATOPump]
    # Outlet for the ATO Pump connected to the FMM
    # No point trying to run this during a power outage as the PMUP is powered from mains power
    #
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If ATOLo OPEN Then ON
    If ATOHi CLOSED Then OFF
    When On > 020:00 Then OFF
    If Time 13:00 to 11:59 Then OFF
    If Outlet PowerOutage = ON then OFF
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    Min Time 120:00 Then OFF

    [ATOStopped]
    # VO to alert if the ATO appears to have to have stopped filling the sump
    # Not currently used as the SumpLo optical switch is used for this monitoring purpose
    # Perhaps turn back on for additional redundancy
    #
    Set OFF
    If Outlet ATOPump = OFF Then ON
    Defer 600:00 Then ON
    If Outlet ATOPump = ON then OFF

    [AutoFeeder]
    Set OFF
    If Outlet V-Feed = ON then ON
    Defer 1:00 then ON

    [EmailAlert]
    Set OFF
    If Power Apex Off 001 Then ON
    If Power EB6_1 Off 001 Then ON
    If Error ATOPump Then ON
    If ATOHi CLOSED Then ON
    If FlrLk CLOSED then ON
    If Outlet SumpLow = ON Then ON

    [MainHeater]
    Fallback OFF
    If Tmp < 25.0 Then ON
    If Outlet PowerOutLong = ON then OFF
    If Tmp < 24.0 then ON
    Defer 000:20 Then ON
    If Tmp > 25.2 Then OFF
    Defer 000:20 Then OFF

    [PowerOutage]
    # VO to indicate a power outage
    # Strictly speaking this is redundant but it improves the readability of other code
    #
    Set OFF
    If Power Apex Off 001 Then ON

    [PowerOutLong]
    # VO to indicate a power outage has gone beyond the first threshold
    # Used to turn off/reduce use of less important devices to extend life of the UPS
    #
    Set OFF
    If Power Apex Off 001 Then ON
    Defer 060:00 then ON

    [ReturnPump]
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If FeedA 000 Then OFF
    If FeedB 000 Then OFF
    If Outlet V-Feed = ON then OFF

    [Skimmer]
    Fallback OFF
    Set ON
    If Outlet ReturnPump = OFF Then OFF
    If FeedB 000 Then OFF
    If Power EB6_1 OFF 001 Then OFF
    If Outlet PowerOutLong = ON then OFF
    Defer 2:00 Then ON

    [SumpLow]
    # VO to detect if the sump water level is low
    #
    Set OFF
    If SumpLo OPEN Then ON
    Defer 001:00 Then ON

    [V-Feed]
    Set OFF
    If Time 19:00 to 19:09 Then ON

    [WaveMaker]
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If FeedA 001 Then OFF
    If FeedB 000 Then OFF
    If Outlet PowerOutLong = ON then OFF


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Your approach is correct, but I would advise against keeping anything other than your wave makers on for longer than a minute (heaters shut shut off instantly). That UPS can keep your tank up and running for 8-12 hours on only a single wave maker, but if you keep the return heater and skimmer on, it will die in like 20-40 minutes.

    You also want

    If Power Apex Off 000 Then ON

    Right below the 001 version in your email alert. This allows you to differentiate between an outage and a reboot instantly.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  3. #3
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Sydney Australia GMT+10
    Posts
    194
    Thanks for the prompt attention as always Zombie.

    I am going to run some tests this weekend to see how long the UPS will last in a few combinations. The readout currently shows an estimated runtime of around 140 mins with return pump, wavemaker and skimmer running. Ambient temperature is warmer now so the heater is not used very much. My tank is only 65g so my power demands aren’t as high as they would be for those with larger tanks.

    I can post the results and details of my hardware in case anyone is interested.

    Thanks for the suggestion about the line to detect reboots, I’ll add that.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    91
    I'd reconsider running skimmer or heater at all on battery backup. My logic is that you could probably turn off your skimmer for days and probably not crash your tank. Depending on ambient temperatures, you could probably do without a heater for a day. The temp will decrease gradually and increase gradually when power come back on (if your heater isn't overkill). The biggest concern is keeping some water flow and gas exchange (CO2 out and O2 in). If you don't get CO2 out your pH will drop fast and your fish will suffocate. The water flow can help gas exchange if it disturbs the surface. A skimmer is also a great method of gas exchange, so if the power consumption is low maybe run it. The concern is that if it does happen to be a long 12+ hour power outage, you will have wasted hours of running a wave pump to run a heater/skimmer for 20 minutes.

    In my setup I have a pretty big Eheim air pump into my sump. It draws a tiny amount of power. I also run it through a CO2 scrubber. It only kicks on if my pH is low (high CO2 from lots of people over, oven baking a turkey, etc.) or if power is out and on battery. It uses much less power than my skimmer pump and has good gas exchange. I slow down my COR-20 to 5% if power goes out. It doesn't draw much power at that speed, it keeps some circulation in the display. Most importantly it pushes the oxygenated water from the sump/air pump into my display. I wouldn't run my heater/skimmer for 10 minutes and lose an hour of gas exchange, because the outage might be long. I take this mindset even though I also have generator. It isn't a fancy auto start CNG unit. But I'd stay at work for 8 hours comfortable knowing I had gas exchange and some flow. Not worry about temp or skimmer. Start up the generator if still out when I get home.

  5. #5
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Sydney Australia GMT+10
    Posts
    194
    Thanks Diznaster,

    I understand the points you are making about higher draw items quickly chewing up the batteries. I’m going to run some tests with the individual items this weekend to see what draws how much, that way I can calculate what life I will get for various combos. I don’t expect I will be able to test the heater now as we are moving well into Spring over here (Sydney Australia), and my heater won’t have to do too much for 5 months or so, just a bit of work overnight occasionally.

    I should be able to get a good read on the skimmer, wavemaker and return pump however.

    O2 levels are certainly my biggest concern, and as you said the skimmer helps with that. I’m really not too sure what impact the wavemaker has on that - concerned that if I don’t run the return pump and just rely on the wavemaker that I could run low on O2. As you said though it also depends on the outage duration I am trying to cater for. Unlike you I can’t control my wavemaker from the Apex, just power it on or off - the program is independent of the Apex (Maxspect Gyre).

    I understand your point about heating, so could drop my low threshold even further and only try to heat if it gets really cold - would only happen in our winter in any case.

    In general our power supply is quite good, so outages are rare. Having said that we had 2 in the last 5 months, so increasing population in my area may be impacting reliability. Longer term I plan to fit a battery backed roof solar system, which will also give me coverage for more extended periods of outage, but how long will depend on how much I am willing to invest.

    Worst case I am typically within 90 mins of home unless we go on holidays, so if I feel too concerned I can always buy a generator and have that on standby.

    Thanks!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  6. #6
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Posts
    91
    My wave makers probably don't do anything for gas exchange. They are lower in the tank and don't disrupt the surface. I don't run them during an outage. I do run my return pump, because it makes turbulence at the display tank surface (gas exchange). I just the return pump slower on battery (you might not be able to). My backup air pump also goes into my sump before my bubble trap, so if I want it's benefit I need to run my return pump. The air pump rarely runs, it is mostly there for a lower power O2 source if I am on battery and my skimmer is off.

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by Diznaster View Post
    My wave makers probably don't do anything for gas exchange. They are lower in the tank and don't disrupt the surface. I don't run them during an outage. I do run my return pump, because it makes turbulence at the display tank surface (gas exchange). I just the return pump slower on battery (you might not be able to). My backup air pump also goes into my sump before my bubble trap, so if I want it's benefit I need to run my return pump. The air pump rarely runs, it is mostly there for a lower power O2 source if I am on battery and my skimmer is off.
    Gas exchange is a two part system. The turbulence at the top increases surface area, which helps increase the rate of exchange, but mixing the water between the surface and below is equally important. Mixing the water reduces the local saturation level of oxygen at the surface, which also increases the rate of exchange. If your return alone adequately mixes, then that might be enough during a power outage, but if the flow rate is low, it may be worth reducing your outage capacity a small amount to run a single powerhead at its minimum setting.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    583
    Here is an approach to add a power save mode during outages:

    Fallback ON
    OSC 000:00/005:00/025:00 Then ON
    If Power MAINS On 000 Then ON

    So the default mode is actually the power save. In this case, ON for 5 minutes out of every 1/2 hour. As long as power is present, this will be overridden and set to constant ON. I use this as the basis for semi-critical components, such as my skimmer. Other conditional overrides would follow.

  9. #9
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    Sydney Australia GMT+10
    Posts
    194
    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Here is an approach to add a power save mode during outages:

    Fallback ON
    OSC 000:00/005:00/025:00 Then ON
    If Power MAINS On 000 Then ON

    So the default mode is actually the power save. In this case, ON for 5 minutes out of every 1/2 hour. As long as power is present, this will be overridden and set to constant ON. I use this as the basis for semi-critical components, such as my skimmer. Other conditional overrides would follow.
    Thanks, that is a good idea, and given I have to run my critical equipment either on or off, no low draw option, would work well for me.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    New User
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spearfish, SD - Mountain Time
    Posts
    11
    Does anyone know.

    I have the new Apex system with an EB832 and would like to add a EB8 energy bar to my newer setup to connect the heater and skimmer into the unit. I would plug the EB8 or EB4 into the wall, and then the EB832 into the battery backup. So then if the power goes out, the eb4 or eb8 will send a power outage command to the system and the rest of the items will go into a lower power saving mode (through programming) in order to make the battery backup last longer.

    Or

    Can I plug the USB cable from the battery backup into the USB port on the Apex system to inform it that the UPS is running on batteries and shut skimmer, heater and such off.

    Thanks,
    Chad.

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by cvolkers View Post
    Does anyone know.

    I have the new Apex system with an EB832 and would like to add a EB8 energy bar to my newer setup to connect the heater and skimmer into the unit. I would plug the EB8 or EB4 into the wall, and then the EB832 into the battery backup. So then if the power goes out, the eb4 or eb8 will send a power outage command to the system and the rest of the items will go into a lower power saving mode (through programming) in order to make the battery backup last longer.

    Or

    Can I plug the USB cable from the battery backup into the USB port on the Apex system to inform it that the UPS is running on batteries and shut skimmer, heater and such off.

    Thanks,
    Chad.
    Aquabus is not compatible with other USB devices that aren't neptune. You will fry your apex, your battery backup, or both. What you should do is purchase an aux power supply for the apex head unit, plug that into the wall, and enable power monitor. This will allow you to use the if power apex statement to detect when the UPS is running.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    New User
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Spearfish, SD - Mountain Time
    Posts
    11
    Thanks for the information Zombie.

Similar Threads

  1. Apex Jr UPS Battery Backup
    By NanoReef303 in forum Apex Classic/Apex Lite/Apex Jr
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-13-2019, 06:45
  2. UPS Backup battery Power setup?
    By 1lastcast in forum Misc Apex Usage & Programming
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-23-2019, 07:07
  3. Help! UPS Battery Backup
    By MockandRoll in forum A2 Apex/ApexEL and A3 Apex Pro/Apex/Apex Jr
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-28-2017, 08:11
  4. UPS 1500 VA Battery Backup
    By fishuntbike in forum Misc Apex Usage & Programming
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 03-14-2016, 08:30
  5. Battery Backup UPS - Apex intermittantly rebooting after connecting to UPS
    By newfubar in forum Misc Apex Usage & Programming
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-16-2015, 07:07

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •