Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: FMM sending errors... optical sensor failing.

  1. #1
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29

    FMM sending errors... optical sensor failing.

    OK I have been back and forth with Neptune for several days now and just don't have the time to dilly-dally. Have to get my FMM up and running so hoping someone could help as I am not getting the help needed via email and just takes too long and goes no where.

    So here goes:
    Purchased the ATK for my system with additional water on floor and considering picking up another optical soon. first thing I did was rip the float off as delivering fresh water directly to the sump is NOT a good thing to do. However, like most I purchased this kit for the optical sensors to control my water level in the sump. As soon as i set up the FMM i was getting errors via my texts regarding the FMM and lower optical sensor "High1" failed and water rose past High1 to High2 triggering the second float switch. Perhaps I am doing something wrong with programing or other? but most of the programing was automatically imputed by tasks for the FMM

    So I set up all the hardware as per instructions: Sorry if i missed anything below but all off top of my head.
    1. plugged in optical sensor #1 called it High1
    2. plugged in optical sensor #2 called it High2
    3. plugged in water on floor sensor #3 called it Leak2
    4. Plugged in the PMUP to the proper port on FMM
    5. plugged in the the FMM moduls power brick to a wall socket.
    6. updated the firmware and followed "tasks" for the FMM as per Neptunes you tube.

    As soon as i did the above the unit started sending me errors based on the programing that it automatically dropped all over the place. agrrr.
    Lets start there and if anyone needs to see other programing I can provide it.

    Thanks in advance!

    I sent neptune systems screenshots of the texts that i got to my phone days ago but they said that didn't help them even though all of the info. is right there. I also sent screen shots of my outlests in question. which i will try and attach here now so someone can make sense of exactly what the issue is here and get me going.
    Screenshot_20181115-164326_Messages by CoralCruze ., on Flickr

    Screenshot_20181115-164551_Samsung Internet by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152493365@N06/]

    Screenshot_20181115-164649_Samsung Internet by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152493365@N06/]

    Screenshot_20181115-164745_Samsung Internet by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152493365@N06/]

    Screenshot_20181115-164959_Samsung Internet by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/152493365@N06/]

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    also a simple question what is output "link A_7_1"? is that the FMM?

  3. #3
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    NO one here that could help? Its been almost a week and i still have the same issues. was hoping that someone on this site could help with this... hmnnn

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    LinkA7_1 is the FMM output. Always name your outlets when you do a task so you can't forget what it is later.

    The if error statement in your email should be ON not OFF. This indicates when the pump ran more than 5 minutes.

    Did you install the siphon break on the ATK as instructed in the getting started guide?

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    LinkA7_1 is the FMM output. Always name your outlets when you do a task so you can't forget what it is later.

    The if error statement in your email should be ON not OFF. This indicates when the pump ran more than 5 minutes.

    Did you install the siphon break on the ATK as instructed in the getting started guide?

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    first thanks for the reply... I cant believe its taking neptune so many days to solve the issue on this fairly simple device. so I am looking to resolve this.

    I see about the pump... I will try and take that statement out and see if that helps with pmup.
    I have no need for siphon break in my case as i am using a solinoid.

    whats causing my high1 sensor to fail is the question? thanks in advance.


    also I never understood why in the world Neptune placed the float valve on the optical sensor bracket and expects you to place it directly in a tank delivering freshwater? then they want you to put the pmup in an ATO container with a siphon break? The whole purpose of an ato container filled with freshwater is to isolate freshwater from your open water source, right? THATS WHERE THE FLOAT VALVE SHOULD BE! IN the ATO container not your sump. If for some reason you flood freshwater and the valve fails inside the ato container at least you are not killing your entire tank... seems counter intuitive. That's why I mentioned in opening post that was the first thing I did... riped it off the atk bracket. It does not belong there. Seems like a blunder to me.

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by coralsrmylife2016 View Post
    first thanks for the reply... I cant believe its taking neptune so many days to solve the issue on this fairly simple device. so I am looking to resolve this.

    I see about the pump... I will try and take that statement out and see if that helps with pmup.
    I have no need for siphon break in my case as i am using a solinoid.

    whats causing my high1 sensor to fail is the question? thanks in advance.


    also I never understood why in the world Neptune placed the float valve on the optical sensor bracket and expects you to place it directly in a tank delivering freshwater? then they want you to put the pmup in an ATO container with a siphon break? The whole purpose of an ato container filled with freshwater is to isolate freshwater from your open water source, right? THATS WHERE THE FLOAT VALVE SHOULD BE! IN the ATO container not your sump. If for some reason you flood freshwater and the valve fails inside the ato container at least you are not killing your entire tank... seems counter intuitive. That's why I mentioned in opening post that was the first thing I did... riped it off the atk bracket. It does not belong there. Seems like a blunder to me.
    How exactly do you have this setup. A float valve should most certainly be on the ATK bracket because it creates a "last line of defense" in case either your solenoid fails or both sensors fail in the closed position.

    If both of your sensors are reading CLOSED and they are not covered in water, that usually means you set both sensors to Optical and didn't plug them in all the way. Another possibility is that your firmware for the ATK is well out of date compared to the system firmware

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    How exactly do you have this setup. A float valve should most certainly be on the ATK bracket because it creates a "last line of defense" in case either your solenoid fails or both sensors fail in the closed position.

    If both of your sensors are reading CLOSED and they are not covered in water, that usually means you set both sensors to Optical and didn't plug them in all the way. Another possibility is that your firmware for the ATK is well out of date compared to the system firmware

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    -everything is upto date in firmware including my new ATK.

    -opticals are plugged in all the way as high2 does not stay closed.

    -I confirmed that high2 is not under water when closed

    - I still disagree about the use of a float valve inside of a sump for the above reasons mentioned.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    let me ask a more simple question. with the ATK's programing, how would you program the lower optical so it can control the water line alone so it constantly fills the water to that lower optical? and... high2 be a failsafe if high1 failed?

    also assumin one was to use the float vale on the ATK would the atk's magnet hold position if the water in the sump was to rise beyond the top of the float valve? In my system during a power outage water would drain down and fill the sump above the float valves level. If the magnets move in this case the controlled water line you set the magnets of the ATK bracket would change in this condition. i havent tried it... but wondering about this.

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by coralsrmylife2016 View Post
    let me ask a more simple question. with the ATK's programing, how would you program the lower optical so it can control the water line alone so it constantly fills the water to that lower optical? and... high2 be a failsafe if high1 failed?

    also assumin one was to use the float vale on the ATK would the atk's magnet hold position if the water in the sump was to rise beyond the top of the float valve? In my system during a power outage water would drain down and fill the sump above the float valves level. If the magnets move in this case the controlled water line you set the magnets of the ATK bracket would change in this condition. i havent tried it... but wondering about this.
    The standard programming from the task already does that, but I am still very confused about your setup. Your initial description says you have the PMUP plugged into the FMM, but you said you are using a solenoid. Exactly what is plugged in where and what is actually delivering freshwater to the tank?

    The magnet will hold as long as you have a standard thickness sump that is less than 3/8" glass. On thick tanks, the pressure might make it slip, and in those cases the valve should be drilled into the sump itself.





    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The standard programming from the task already does that, but I am still very confused about your setup. Your initial description says you have the PMUP plugged into the FMM, but you said you are using a solenoid. Exactly what is plugged in where and what is actually delivering freshwater to the tank?

    The magnet will hold as long as you have a standard thickness sump that is less than 3/8" glass. On thick tanks, the pressure might make it slip, and in those cases the valve should be drilled into the sump itself.





    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    thanks again for trying to help as I appreciate it.

    that's just it. out of the box the programing in tasks immediately created the errors described. i was able to figure out how to stop the error statement on the pmup outlet but. the high1 optical still fails. is sit possible that the optical is bad? since no one can figure out what is causing the failure in programing... Neptune told me that the default programing is NOT setup like you say that High1 would be designated to hold waterline and high2 act as failsafe to high1. instead they told me that high1 would control the low water indicator and high2 the high water indicator and control the waterline essentially at high2 and that is not what I want. I want to hold the waterline at high1. They also said that to do this I would need to have "set on" which they feel is not safe in a power outage situation.

    My sump is 3/8" nominal acrylic so slightly less than 3/8" measured. I tried it on 1/4" acrylic and float valve still slides when i simulate power out condition...not concerned with power out as filter would be off and so would the ato... however if the float moves the magnet, when power returns the magnet is in new position. Which defeats the purpose of having these precision optical sensors holding a precise water line. so I agree that at the least if you are going to use a float in a sump (which I would never) secure it to the sump wall. But seems that you would need to secure the magnets to the sump wall as well somehow.

    Sure on setup:
    Waterfilter> float valve > ATO freshwater container with float switch as failsafe to protect floors> Pump> solinoid>check valve> reactor> sump
    Hence freshwater NEVER enters directly into tank... container is completely separate and most advanced reefers would agree this is the correct way to do this.

    I am going to post the latest programing which changed a bit... perhaps you can look at it and tell me what is causing the high1 to fail?
    keep in mind through this testing the pmup is currently in the sump but it is NOT implemented into the sump just yet until I know i have a completely 100% working system.

    Thanks again!

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    The solenoid might be biting you. The type of solenoid that the neptune style is requires a few PSI to reliably close. In that type of scenario, the solenoid needs to turn on a second or two before the pump to prevent the pump from stalling when it starts, but needs to shut off a second or two before the pump does to reliably open.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The solenoid might be biting you. The type of solenoid that the neptune style is requires a few PSI to reliably close. In that type of scenario, the solenoid needs to turn on a second or two before the pump to prevent the pump from stalling when it starts, but needs to shut off a second or two before the pump does to reliably open.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    interestingly I have been running it this way for over 15 years without issue. I don't mind adding a program to that effect. do you have such an example you could share?

  13. #13
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by coralsrmylife2016 View Post
    interestingly I have been running it this way for over 15 years without issue. I don't mind adding a program to that effect. do you have such an example you could share?
    If you aren't using the style that the neptune branded solenoid is, you might be fine without doing so, but the way to do so is this

    Solenoid
    put your ATO code here

    Pump
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output Solenoid = ON Then ON
    Defer 000:01 Then ON
    Defer 000:01 Then OFF

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  14. #14
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    If you aren't using the style that the neptune branded solenoid is, you might be fine without doing so, but the way to do so is this

    Solenoid
    put your ATO code here

    Pump
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Output Solenoid = ON Then ON
    Defer 000:01 Then ON
    Defer 000:01 Then OFF

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    OK I added this statement why not? and it did save it.

    However, would the defer statements be in conflict with the defer statements already in the Pmup programing through "tasks"?

    below is what is already in the Pmup outlet: however they are all way on the bottom of the programing lines so if I remember that takes priority, correct?
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:04 Then OFF

  15. #15
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by coralsrmylife2016 View Post
    OK I added this statement why not? and it did save it.

    However, would the defer statements be in conflict with the defer statements already in the Pmup programing through "tasks"?

    below is what is already in the Pmup outlet: however they are all way on the bottom of the programing lines so if I remember that takes priority, correct?
    Defer 000:10 Then ON
    Defer 000:04 Then OFF
    The programming generated by the task would go in the solenoid instead of the PMUP and the defers for the pump with what I show above would not conflict. They would just offset the pump 1 second in relationship to the solenoid.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    PST
    Posts
    29
    oh ok I see it now. will do this. Thanks for all of the assistance.

Similar Threads

  1. Can not change title of FMM Optical sensor
    By Heydrew in forum Fluid Monitoring Module (FMM), FMK, ATK, LDK, and FMM Accessories
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-04-2022, 21:08
  2. Question: FMM and Optical sensor programming
    By Coastkid in forum Misc Apex Usage & Programming
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-12-2020, 21:47
  3. Help! Issue with optical sensor on FMM
    By Satava in forum Apex Programming for Dosing, ATO, and AWC
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-29-2018, 11:21
  4. Fmm optical sensor help
    By jelly in forum Fluid Monitoring Module (FMM), FMK, ATK, LDK, and FMM Accessories
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 02-27-2018, 18:17
  5. FMM and Optical Sensor question
    By Andrass1989 in forum Fluid Monitoring Module (FMM), FMK, ATK, LDK, and FMM Accessories
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-08-2017, 12:04

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •