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Thread: Does the DOS have to be above the DOS reservoir and above the water line in the sump?

  1. #1
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    Does the DOS have to be above the DOS reservoir and above the water line in the sump?

    I'm upgrading my Apex Classic to the 2016 and swapping out my current bubble magus for a DOS unit.

    I looked at the DOS instructions, but all it says it to mount the DOS above the water line. Probably the lawyers wrote that LOL.

    Anyway, since I'm not mounting my DOS above my tank and probably no one is either...

    What are the mounting rules?

    Does the DOS have to be above the DOS reservoir?
    Does the DOS have to be above the water line in the sump?
    Is there potential for the DOS to leak? I'm considering mounting everything to a board this time and putting that board in the stand. Can you have any modules mounted below the DOS or is that risky?

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The recommendation is in case of leaks. Don't put the DOS above anything else electronic and don't set it where water could pool up during a sump leak. It does not have to be above the water line of the sump, that's just CYA for Neptune.

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  3. #3
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    It does not have to be above the water line of the sump, that's just CYA for Neptune.
    No, it's just common sense, like always having drip loops. The main point of keeping the DŌS above the highest water level where you have tubing running to/from (DDR, other reservoir, or sump, or tank) is to allow water or other fluid to gravity drain back into the DDR/reservoir/sump/tank rather than causing a siphon to form should there be a split in the internal pump head tubing or for example, a tube come loose from the pump head fitting.

    This is especially important for those who incorrectly opt to use harder polyethylene tubing (the so-called "RO tubing") instead of the recommended and supplied softer, more expandable polyurethane tubing. That RO tubing does not work well on the tapered pump head fittings, and tends to split where it is force-ably shoved onto a tapered fitting (which it is not meant to do) through the tubing.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    No, it's just common sense, like always having drip loops. The main point of keeping the DŌS above the highest water level where you have tubing running to/from (DDR, other reservoir, or sump, or tank) is to allow water or other fluid to gravity drain back into the DDR/reservoir/sump/tank rather than causing a siphon to form should there be a split in the internal pump head tubing or for example, a tube come loose from the pump head fitting.

    This is especially important for those who incorrectly opt to use harder polyethylene tubing (the so-called "RO tubing") instead of the recommended and supplied softer, more expandable polyurethane tubing. That RO tubing does not work well on the tapered pump head fittings, and tends to split where it is force-ably shoved onto a tapered fitting (which it is not meant to do) through the tubing.
    The tubing should be yes, but it is not common sense or required at all to have the DOS itself above the water line of the sump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    No, it's just common sense, like always having drip loops. The main point of keeping the DŌS above the highest water level where you have tubing running to/from (DDR, other reservoir, or sump, or tank) is to allow water or other fluid to gravity drain back into the DDR/reservoir/sump/tank rather than causing a siphon to form should there be a split in the internal pump head tubing or for example, a tube come loose from the pump head fitting.

    This is especially important for those who incorrectly opt to use harder polyethylene tubing (the so-called "RO tubing") instead of the recommended and supplied softer, more expandable polyurethane tubing. That RO tubing does not work well on the tapered pump head fittings, and tends to split where it is force-ably shoved onto a tapered fitting (which it is not meant to do) through the tubing.
    i use RO polyethylene tubing with John Guest # PP450821W push tube fittings which work great. These fittings use the same thread as your DOS and never split or leak.

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    Thanks for all the great info everyone! I just ordered a whole pile of new Apex stuff from BRS. Will be upgrading soon. I'm sure it will be a royal PITA re configuring everything and borderline starting over, but hoping it will be worth it when all finished.

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    If you guys were using a controller board.... Would you be concerned about having the DOS above the various controllers and modules? Has anyone really seen one of these leak?

    The DOS takes up a lot of real estate and putting it above the water line of the sump would put it square in the middle of the board, making it hard to fit other stuff.

    As long as the end of the tubing that drips into the sump is well above the sump water line, I should be fine, right? No chance of a back siphon if the tubing is inches above the water?

    Does the DOS have to be mounted higher than the DOS reservoir?

    Ideally, i'd like to mount the DOS on the bottom of my controller board so that in the event of a leak, it can't drip into any of the electronics. However, that would put the DOS at likely the same height, or even a little lower than the reservoir.

    Thoughts?

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
    If you guys were using a controller board.... Would you be concerned about having the DOS above the various controllers and modules? Has anyone really seen one of these leak?

    The DOS takes up a lot of real estate and putting it above the water line of the sump would put it square in the middle of the board, making it hard to fit other stuff.

    As long as the end of the tubing that drips into the sump is well above the sump water line, I should be fine, right? No chance of a back siphon if the tubing is inches above the water?

    Does the DOS have to be mounted higher than the DOS reservoir?

    Ideally, i'd like to mount the DOS on the bottom of my controller board so that in the event of a leak, it can't drip into any of the electronics. However, that would put the DOS at likely the same height, or even a little lower than the reservoir.

    Thoughts?
    Totally fine. The risk of siphon is incredibly low and the drain line is no more protected with a high mounted DOS than a low mounted one since the location of the input and output tubing are what drive siphoning (if a roller fails), not the location if the DOS itself.

    The part that is a reasonable risk is the potential for leaks onto electronic equipment, particularly when you might remove the tubing and reseat if you saw some bubbles in the line (I have spilled a few times doing this), so mounting below any other electronics is MUCH more important IME than mounting it above the water line.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Totally fine. The risk of siphon is incredibly low and the drain line is no more protected with a high mounted DOS than a low mounted one since the location of the input and output tubing are what drive siphoning (if a roller fails), not the location if the DOS itself.

    The part that is a reasonable risk is the potential for leaks onto electronic equipment, particularly when you might remove the tubing and reseat if you saw some bubbles in the line (I have spilled a few times doing this), so mounting below any other electronics is MUCH more important IME than mounting it above the water line.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Ok, so I'll definitely mount the DOS unit down low to prevent anything dripping into the modules. I might even maintain enough space to add a second DOS next to it if I decide to automate my water changes.

    Now as far as my reservoir... Can the DOS and the reservoir basically be at the same height. The DOS will be on the bottom of my control board (about 1 inches off the base of my cabinet storage) and the reservoir will be on the base of my cabinet nearby.

    Thoughts?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
    Ok, so I'll definitely mount the DOS unit down low to prevent anything dripping into the modules. I might even maintain enough space to add a second DOS next to it if I decide to automate my water changes.

    Now as far as my reservoir... Can the DOS and the reservoir basically be at the same height. The DOS will be on the bottom of my control board (about 1 inches off the base of my cabinet storage) and the reservoir will be on the base of my cabinet nearby.

    Thoughts?
    On 2 part, you want to make sure the output tubing is higher than the reservoir on the off chance the head roller fails and you get a little siphon. It's nice to have the DOS a little above it too so it cant spill as much 2 part if the seal on the compression fittings fail, but not a necessity by any means.

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    On 2 part, you want to make sure the output tubing is higher than the reservoir on the off chance the head roller fails and you get a little siphon. It's nice to have the DOS a little above it too so it cant spill as much 2 part if the seal on the compression fittings fail, but not a necessity by any means.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    I think I've given up on the idea of having my DOS on the controller board. Takes up too much real estate and if I mount it on the bottom of the board to avoid getting the controllers wet, it will be lower than both the sump line and the reservoir. I think I'll just mount the DOS on the inside wall of the cabinet and be done with it. I may add a second dose for automatic water changes so I'll need more space anyway.

    Appreciate all the great advice on here!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The tubing should be yes, but it is not common sense or required at all to have the DOS itself above the water line of the sump.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Common sense was probably a bad choice of words. It most certainly IS a Best Practice. I think this was the point.

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    Any idea what size wood screws you need to mount the DOS?

    I've given up putting in my controller board, so I'm going to mount it up high in my cabinet. However, it did not come with mounting screws.

    I can figure out the length, but any idea what size screws I need to hang the DOS?

    Also, what is the trick to punching out hanging tabs on the back of the DOS?

  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Use a pan head screw with a head a little smaller than the larger part of the keyholes on the DOS.

    Use a small flat-tip screwdriver to pry out the plastic inside the keyholes.

    There is a printable DOS mounting template downloadable here: https://www.neptunesystems.com/support/docs/
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
    Any idea what size wood screws you need to mount the DOS?

    I've given up putting in my controller board, so I'm going to mount it up high in my cabinet. However, it did not come with mounting screws.

    I can figure out the length, but any idea what size screws I need to hang the DOS?

    Also, what is the trick to punching out hanging tabs on the back of the DOS?
    Print off that mounting template and give it to the hardware rep at your local hardware store and tell him what thickness your stand is. He can give you a pan head screw recommendation with that info.

    Use a screwdriver to pull the tabs off and the key is to twist the plastic so it breaks clean.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Print off that mounting template and give it to the hardware rep at your local hardware store and tell him what thickness your stand is. He can give you a pan head screw recommendation with that info.

    Use a screwdriver to pull the tabs off and the key is to twist the plastic so it breaks clean.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Good thinking. I already have the template printed. I was thinking I was going to have to carry the DOS in there. Duh....

    Thanks, Zombie!

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Print off that mounting template and give it to the hardware rep at your local hardware store and tell him what thickness your stand is. He can give you a pan head screw recommendation with that info.

    Use a screwdriver to pull the tabs off and the key is to twist the plastic so it breaks clean.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

    Precise. Very, very good.

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