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Thread: Wacky ORP and Salinity Probes

  1. #1
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    Wacky ORP and Salinity Probes

    Hello,

    I've had my Apex for only a couple of months. All was well until a couple of days ago. I was on vacation, so I'm not exactly sure what happened, but I think I had a quick power flicker from storms rolling through. Since then, my salinity and ORP probes are not working correctly. They're reading incredibly high (ORP at 921; salinity at 55.8). The salinity is showing varying values throughout the day, but the ORP has only read exactly 921 for 2 days now. I have calibrating solution for the salinity and will try that soon. I have already tried cleaning both and unplugging and replugging the probes in, which had no effect.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Contact support. If your apex wasn't on a surge protector those kind of values are within what I would expect from a hardware failure.

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    The probes, my probes ha e never worked correctly.

    Currently the salinty probe is measuring something not even close.

    The Ph probe is not to be believed although it comes close esp after recalibration, but if I calibrate it and a Hanna Ph checker rinse both off in Ro water , put them back into 10.01 solution, they read close to 10.00 a little over, a little under.

    Put them into tank water they are not even close to each other. Well within 1.0.

    If I take a cupfull of tank water and use that, so there is no stray voltage, I get something else.

    If I put a grounding probe into the tank I get domething else.

    But in a day or two if I put the probe into 10.01 solution it reads something else again. The Hanna reads close to 10.01.

    The probe is hardly 2.5bmonths old.

    Any thoughts ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shebeko View Post
    The probes, my probes ha e never worked correctly.

    Currently the salinty probe is measuring something not even close.

    The Ph probe is not to be believed although it comes close esp after recalibration, but if I calibrate it and a Hanna Ph checker rinse both off in Ro water , put them back into 10.01 solution, they read close to 10.00 a little over, a little under.

    Put them into tank water they are not even close to each other. Well within 1.0.

    If I take a cupfull of tank water and use that, so there is no stray voltage, I get something else.

    If I put a grounding probe into the tank I get domething else.

    But in a day or two if I put the probe into 10.01 solution it reads something else again. The Hanna reads close to 10.01.

    The probe is hardly 2.5bmonths old.

    Any thoughts ?
    You actually answered your own question. "If I take a cupfull of tank water and use that, so there is no stray voltage, I get something else." You need to find and eliminate the source of stray voltage and just using a grounding probe without finding the source first can actually make the problem even worse depending where everything is located.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    You actually answered your own question. "If I take a cupfull of tank water and use that, so there is no stray voltage, I get something else." You need to find and eliminate the source of stray voltage and just using a grounding probe without finding the source first can actually make the problem even worse depending where everything is located.

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    So how do smart people test for stray voltage ?

    I checked the grounds for all the power outlets, there are no open grounds.

    Will a GFI trip ?

    Thanks in advance.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shebeko View Post
    So how do smart people test for stray voltage ?

    I checked the grounds for all the power outlets, there are no open grounds.

    Will a GFI trip ?

    Thanks in advance.
    You grab a multimeter and set it to check AC voltage and put the red leaf in the tank and the black lead on a house ground (a grounding probe and a clamp helps here). Turn every device off and then turn one device on and check the voltage then turn it back off. Repeat for each device, then set to DC voltage and check again. If any device shows up in the double digits its insulation is mostly failed and needs to be replaced or it will fault soon and also causes probe interference issues.

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    Thank you.

    V

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    00.2 volts AC for entire tank

    have to go buy a meter that has DC.

    what you think?

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    You did make sure to disconnect any grounding probes first right?

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    Only thing that would be grounding the tank would be some of the plugs have three prongs
    and one if those prongs is a ground and of course all the sockets have grounds.

    would that matter ?

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    Those wont matter in the results as long as the device doesnt have exposed titanium in contact with the water. Since most reef devices are waterproofed in plastic, the ground is not in contact with the water. If you have a titanium heater that has 3 prongs, that would need to be disconnected while testing the other devices.

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    I have two titanium heaters with the three plug arrangement.

    Located on opposite sides of the tank.

    If one of them were leaking.... but then I am only showing .2 volts

    I want to thank you for taking the time with this. I appreciate it.


    V

    - - - Updated - - -

    What is the significance of exposed titanium if the heater has a good ground /

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shebeko View Post
    I have two titanium heaters with the three plug arrangement.

    Located on opposite sides of the tank.

    If one of them were leaking.... but then I am only showing .2 volts

    I want to thank you for taking the time with this. I appreciate it.


    V

    - - - Updated - - -

    What is the significance of exposed titanium if the heater has a good ground /
    It's because they act like a ground probe, which turns the stray voltage into a stray current that is impossible to measure without a current clamp on the ground wire. The ground on a device that is plastic is isolated from the tank and doesnt allow a path to ground from the tank water.

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    Also for clarity, the stray current is what actually affects probes. The reason is because a stray current is a voltage gradient between the device that would create stray voltage in an ungrounded tank and the ground itself. Probes generate a small voltage that relates to whatever parameter its measuring and if there is a voltage gradient in the tank between the probes measurement electrodes, that voltage gets added to its reading and can skew it up or down.

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    So the quick and dirty test would be to unplug the heaters and see what happens to the probe readings ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    What is a current clamp?

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    Yes. Unplug the heaters and repeat the test.

    A current clamp is a device that is either integral or an add on to a digital multimeter that allows you to measure AC current and sometimes DC current (these are much more expensive) by clamping it around a wire instead of breaking the circuit. I use this all the time in my job, but only really use the DC clamp at home for car electrical troubleshooting.

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    Ah, i use a current clamp to measure amps in three phase witing to see if the water pump is burnt out or damaged. But i never used it on bundled wire like in a cord.

    So you would ground the tank and then put the clamp around the grounding wire ?

    will have to try this asap. Thanks

    v

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shebeko View Post
    Ah, i use a current clamp to measure amps in three phase witing to see if the water pump is burnt out or damaged. But i never used it on bundled wire like in a cord.

    So you would ground the tank and then put the clamp around the grounding wire ?

    will have to try this asap. Thanks

    v
    You can't use the current clamp directly on a bundled cord, the current cancels each other out. You have to use an extension cord with the outer jacket removed to expose the black, white, and bare ground conductors.

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    Good to know
    I’ll let you know how I go.

    thanks

    v

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    Exact same problem

    Hey I’ve been trawling threw the internet to try and find out what’s up with my Apex. This is the exact thing that’s happened to me, except I’ve only had mine up running for less than two weeks! Orp has never changed its reading from 921 & salinity probe is also screwed up in 60s too 70s and when you try too calibrate it it won’t even find a acceptable range in stage 2 of calibration (dry). Did you ever fix your apex as I have literally spent months on this build and now the constant flow of problems from my apex is making me want too make a video on YouTube putting it all in the blender!!!! And put a baseball bat threw the tank !!!!! Arghhhh when will I just be able too enjoy the product I have spent a thousands on ££££ !!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprtina View Post
    Hey I’ve been trawling threw the internet to try and find out what’s up with my Apex. This is the exact thing that’s happened to me, except I’ve only had mine up running for less than two weeks! Orp has never changed its reading from 921 & salinity probe is also screwed up in 60s too 70s and when you try too calibrate it it won’t even find a acceptable range in stage 2 of calibration (dry). Did you ever fix your apex as I have literally spent months on this build and now the constant flow of problems from my apex is making me want too make a video on YouTube putting it all in the blender!!!! And put a baseball bat threw the tank !!!!! Arghhhh when will I just be able too enjoy the product I have spent a thousands on ££££ !!!!!!!!

    Contact support.


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    [QUOTE=vhuang168;155819]Contact support.


    I’ve given up on the probes. Threw the Ph probe away. It worked kinda for a while but then stopped calibrating. The cost if a replacement is far more then a Hanna. So I use two Hannas now, to keep each other honest, clean, calibrate, remeasure, and compensate once a month. Easy and what I save on calibration fluid on the Apex probe I’m going to Hawaii. ��

    The salinity probe works kinda. Sometimes. I have replaced it with a remote hydrometer. See picture. Since I travel this is important to me.

    The ORP probe has little utility for me.

    Temp. Proble is close enough. The two heaters have their own high low controllers so.

    Bottom line is pumps are nice and when l’m away and the remote hydrometer shows I need more or less fresh water
    I can adjust it from afar.

    For what I paid for all the gear that is one expensive ATO. ��BB19753F-6977-4747-B25D-145FB728886D.jpg

    It’s a hydrometer being looked at by a cheap remote camera through a dime store magifying glass. Hydrometer is held by bull dog clip. Total cost of set up. Under a 100 dollars.

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