Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: Ecosmart Live vs WXM Apex - Radion Power vs Brightness vs Intensity?

  1. #1
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40

    Ecosmart Live vs WXM Apex - Radion Power vs Brightness vs Intensity?

    Hi, I am a bit confused about the difference in light intensity of my Radions when setting them up using Neptunes Apex module. ON the Ecosmart live, I can adjust whether I adjust the Brightness (next to each individual slider) or the over all power. The end result gives me the intensity of the lights at each point. Using the Apex Module I am just adjusting the power. Is that power the Intensity of the point or the over all power slider? Basically, how do make sure I am getting the same intensity at each point?

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor SuncrestReef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Beaverton, OR
    Posts
    3,105
    Apex allows you to set the overall Power (or intensity) by dragging points on the graph or editing the settings for each timeslot. Additionally, for each point on the graph, you can set the individual Spectrum at the bottom of the screen:

    Screen Shot 2019-01-02 at 8.00.01 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2019-01-02 at 7.56.05 PM.png

  3. #3
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    [QUOTE=SuncrestReef;157505]Apex allows you to set the overall Power (or intensity) by dragging points on the graph or editing the settings for each timeslot. Additionally, for each point on the graph, you can set the individual Spectrum at the bottom of the screen

    yes, I have set up mine similarly, but I was just confused as to whether the power was something different than intensity. I was never able get over 66 % intensity using Ecosmart Live, but it seems possible with apex.
    This 50 % is the same 50 % that I would see by hovering over the point in ecosmart?

    wxm radion.PNG

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor SuncrestReef's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Beaverton, OR
    Posts
    3,105
    Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I thought you weren't seeing the spectrum sliders at the bottom.

    Unfortunately I don't know if 50% on Ecosmart is the same as 50% on Apex, since I only ever used Apex. It would be interesting to compare using a PAR meter.

  5. #5
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by SuncrestReef View Post
    Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I thought you weren't seeing the spectrum sliders at the bottom.

    Unfortunately I don't know if 50% on Ecosmart is the same as 50% on Apex, since I only ever used Apex. It would be interesting to compare using a PAR meter.
    anyone else care to answer this? I just spoke with Ecotech and they couldn't answer it. It seems like such an obvious question. Is intensity on Ecosmart live the same as "power" when programming Radions in Apex? If it is, why can I input higher "power" in Apex than what Ecosmart live allows; ie, the intensity in ecosmart live is limited by the orange bar and the % of each spectrum used and the brightness bag??????

    Would really love an answer to this (ecotech / neptune reps).

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by iTread View Post
    anyone else care to answer this? I just spoke with Ecotech and they couldn't answer it. It seems like such an obvious question. Is intensity on Ecosmart live the same as "power" when programming Radions in Apex? If it is, why can I input higher "power" in Apex than what Ecosmart live allows; ie, the intensity in ecosmart live is limited by the orange bar and the % of each spectrum used and the brightness bag??????

    Would really love an answer to this (ecotech / neptune reps).
    I am pretty sure the way it works is that that Neptunes intensity is essentially a multiplier to the individual channel intensity.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  7. #7
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I am pretty sure the way it works is that that Neptunes intensity is essentially a multiplier to the individual channel intensity.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Ok. I understand the words, not sure I know exactly how to intpret that. So let me ask a specific example.
    On Ecosmart Live, the midpoint in the day was at 67 % intensity, 100 % Brightness with UV and Blues at 100 %, W=30 %, G=21% and Red 18 %. (Radion G2XR30 Pros).

    The same point on Neptune is 67 % (when I scroll over the point) and the Spectrum is set the same.
    I realize it seems the same, but i feel like the intensity is less.

    In Ecosmart, there is no way for me to increase the intensity without adjusting the spectrum up. Whereas in Apex I can simply increase the "power" on programing ant that increases it as much as as I want. That makes me think the numbers are not the same.

    If the numbers are not the same, then maybe the 100 % on Apex is just 100 % of what Ecosmart can do and therefore I need to jack up my power on all my points just to get back to where I was before. That is a big move, if that assumption is wrong.

    Which really frustrates me since neither tech support on apex or ecosmart can answer this question. And it's Friday now.

    I am attaching the image. I just moved the power up to 80 %. Again, I can't do that in Ecosmart under similar conditions.
    Apex 80 Radion Point.PNG

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by iTread View Post
    Ok. I understand the words, not sure I know exactly how to intpret that. So let me ask a specific example.
    On Ecosmart Live, the midpoint in the day was at 67 % intensity, 100 % Brightness with UV and Blues at 100 %, W=30 %, G=21% and Red 18 %. (Radion G2XR30 Pros).

    The same point on Neptune is 67 % (when I scroll over the point) and the Spectrum is set the same.
    I realize it seems the same, but i feel like the intensity is less.

    In Ecosmart, there is no way for me to increase the intensity without adjusting the spectrum up. Whereas in Apex I can simply increase the "power" on programing ant that increases it as much as as I want. That makes me think the numbers are not the same.

    If the numbers are not the same, then maybe the 100 % on Apex is just 100 % of what Ecosmart can do and therefore I need to jack up my power on all my points just to get back to where I was before. That is a big move, if that assumption is wrong.

    Which really frustrates me since neither tech support on apex or ecosmart can answer this question. And it's Friday now.

    I am attaching the image. I just moved the power up to 80 %. Again, I can't do that in Ecosmart under similar conditions.
    Apex 80 Radion Point.PNG
    Basically, if all sliders were at 100% and the intensity at 100% would be maximum light output. All sliders at 50% and intensity at 100% would be half output as would all sliders at 100% and intensity at 50%.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Basically, if all sliders were at 100% and the intensity at 100% would be maximum light output. All sliders at 50% and intensity at 100% would be half output as would all sliders at 100% and intensity at 50%.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    (also, I think you meant all sliders at 100 % and yellow/orange power bar at 100 %. The combination gives the intensity in Ecosmart LIve. You dont actually adjust "intensity". Intensity is the result. That is how I understand it at least).

    I agree on Ecosmart Live, but in the below example where everything is the same as my apex programming, I am maxed out att 66 % intennsity. Ie, I can not increase the intensity at all in Ecosmart. Whereas, in Apex, I can. So, it makes me think that the 2 numbers are not the same thing. If they are not the same thing, how do I get the same intensity level in apex as I had in ecosmart?


    ecosmart.PNG

  10. #10
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Quote Originally Posted by iTread View Post
    (also, I think you meant all sliders at 100 % and yellow/orange power bar at 100 %. The combination gives the intensity in Ecosmart LIve. You dont actually adjust "intensity". Intensity is the result. That is how I understand it at least).

    I agree on Ecosmart Live, but in the below example where everything is the same as my apex programming, I am maxed out att 66 % intennsity. Ie, I can not increase the intensity at all in Ecosmart. Whereas, in Apex, I can. So, it makes me think that the 2 numbers are not the same thing. If they are not the same thing, how do I get the same intensity level in apex as I had in ecosmart?


    ecosmart.PNG
    I'm pretty sure you set the intensity to 100 and then match the sliders.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  11. #11
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    I'm pretty sure you set the intensity to 100 and then match the sliders.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Thanks Zombie.
    Anyone else care to comment? Anyone who has done the same thing?

  12. #12
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by iTread View Post
    Thanks Zombie.
    Anyone else care to comment? Anyone who has done the same thing?
    anyway, from what I can tell, the intensity of the lights are capped by the ESL. I bumped up all the "power" setttings in Apex to 100 % for the 3 middle of the day points. There was no change in light output. I did the same for the points that are in the morning and evening section and they did increase, but they were never maxed out in ESL. Conclusion: Intensity in ESL is not the same as "power" in Apex programming.

  13. #13
    Code Illiterate Adamola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    19
    The Brightness (ESL) and Power (Fusion) should correlate. The max intensity when hovering over a time point in ESL, like the above pictured, showing the 66% on the graph with the brightness showing set to 100% is said to be due to the White, Green and Red sliders are set below 100% on the sliders there for the fixture is running at 66% of full capacity [intensity]. That is what was explained to me when connecting my XR15s this weekend and logically made sense (to me at least.)

    However to answer definitively PAR measurements would have to be taken to know that the modules and the program being sent to the light are causing the light to produce the same output.

  14. #14
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamola View Post
    The Brightness (ESL) and Power (Fusion) should correlate. The max intensity when hovering over a time point in ESL, like the above pictured, showing the 66% on the graph with the brightness showing set to 100% is said to be due to the White, Green and Red sliders are set below 100% on the sliders there for the fixture is running at 66% of full capacity [intensity]. That is what was explained to me when connecting my XR15s this weekend and logically made sense (to me at least.)

    However to answer definitively PAR measurements would have to be taken to know that the modules and the program being sent to the light are causing the light to produce the same output.
    I agree with that...but it's still not clear to me how you get the same Intensity (ESL) using Apex. I have had to bump my apex up to 100 % power to visually match the 66 % intensity. I am hoping to rent a PAR meter this weekend.

  15. #15
    Code Illiterate Adamola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by iTread View Post
    I agree with that...but it's still not clear to me how you get the same Intensity (ESL) using Apex. I have had to bump my apex up to 100 % power to visually match the 66 % intensity. I am hoping to rent a PAR meter this weekend.
    You have the same power output now. The 100% scale on ESL is total available from Radion Fixture. Fusion 100% scale is for the spectrum.

    Maybe the word intensity is the issue, instead of intensity use the wording "power used". Let me take a couple pics, another reply coming momentarily.

  16. #16
    Code Illiterate Adamola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamola View Post
    You have the same power output now. The 100% scale on ESL is total available from Radion Fixture. Fusion 100% scale is for the spectrum.

    Maybe the word intensity is the issue, instead of intensity use the wording "power used". Let me take a couple pics, another reply coming momentarily.
    Firstly let me acknowledge that you said you agree, but I wanted to show clarification of my thought process as I found this thread looking for info on Radion programming and percentages. So maybe this thread will help someone else as well.

    The first pic [green circled graph] should show the Red Green White sliders reduced for the color temp spectrum, with the brightness set to 100. The intensity (power used) is 64% of the total available output the fixture can provide.

    The second pic [red circled graph] with the sliders all set to 100 and the brightness set to 100 shows the intensity (power used) at 97% of the fixtures total available power.

    The fusion sidebar scale of 0-100% = ESL Brightness Slidebar . Come to think of it, I don’t see where the intensity would even matter. Seems like a bit of useless info, please correct me if I’m wrong.








    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #17
    Regular Vistor
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by Adamola View Post
    Firstly let me acknowledge that you said you agree, but I wanted to show clarification of my thought process as I found this thread looking for info on Radion programming and percentages. So maybe this thread will help someone else as well.

    The first pic [green circled graph] should show the Red Green White sliders reduced for the color temp spectrum, with the brightness set to 100. The intensity (power used) is 64% of the total available output the fixture can provide.

    The second pic [red circled graph] with the sliders all set to 100 and the brightness set to 100 shows the intensity (power used) at 97% of the fixtures total available power.

    The fusion sidebar scale of 0-100% = ESL Brightness Slidebar . Come to think of it, I don’t see where the intensity would even matter. Seems like a bit of useless info, please correct me if I’m wrong.








    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well, I would say take the 64 % you have in ESL and try and replicate it in Apex. Keep the same spectrum sliders and try and match the "66 %". If you put in the 66 % on the Power in Apex, all else equal, that should be the same "intensity" in ESL? If so, change the power to 100 % in Apex. You can. So what's the difference if you can't do the same in ESL (again, same brightness, same "orange 100 %"" bar. Just try that excercise and then you'll see my confusion on it.

  18. #18
    Code Illiterate Adamola's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    19
    Quote Originally Posted by iTread View Post
    Well, I would say take the 64 % you have in ESL and try and replicate it in Apex. Keep the same spectrum sliders and try and match the "66 %". If you put in the 66 % on the Power in Apex, all else equal, that should be the same "intensity" in ESL? If so, change the power to 100 % in Apex. You can. So what's the difference if you can't do the same in ESL (again, same brightness, same "orange 100 %"" bar. Just try that excercise and then you'll see my confusion on it.
    ​Intensity means nothing in Fusion, and really ESL either, and it's also not a given value to work with in either program. In ESL you cannot soley adjust intensity. Its a measure based on the color and power settings showing the percentage of electricity being used versus the total electrical load the fixture could use.

    ESL Brightness Slider = Fusion Power Sidebar

    You cannot put the 66% intensity in fusion, which you cannot set ESL to an intensity of 66% either [you can make the graph point show 66% but you cannot give that as an input for ESL] ...with the above mentioned method you would be reducing your POWER (BRIGHTNESS) in Fusion. If you were to set the Fusion power line point to 66% you would get the same results in ESL by moving the Brightness slide to 66%. You cannot manually adjust your intensity value on its own in ESL, it only changes when the color or brightness slides change. With all colors set to 100 and brightness to 100, ESL shows an approx wattage use of 148 watts. When the color slides are back to the normal program, ESL gives approx wattage use of 98. Now, 98 is about 65% of 148 this is where ESL is basing the intensity numbers. You could raise the overall intensity of their light, but only by altering the color or brightness.

    IF you want to replicate your ESL settings in Fusion then set your colors at the same points and adjust your power line graph point to the same value as ESL brightness. IF you are using Fusion totally forget the word intensity.

Similar Threads

  1. Help! WXM and Ecosmart live - Radion led control
    By pauljcooke in forum APEX Fusion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-18-2019, 01:17
  2. Question: Radion XR15 G4 Ecosmart Live profile Setup - Apex Classic Intensity control
    By marc in forum Apex Programming for Lighting
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 01-05-2019, 08:38
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-06-2018, 10:02
  4. Radion XR15 pro overall intensity or brightness
    By ktipp in forum Apex Programming for Lighting
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 01-28-2018, 09:55
  5. Question: Convert Color/Intensity From Ecosmart Live to Fusion
    By malecki in forum Apex Programming for Lighting
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-19-2015, 13:51

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •