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Thread: I have a few question about the ATK.

  1. #1
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    I have a few question about the ATK.

    I'm playing with my new ATO.

    Sensor 1 (Low) and Sensor 2 (High) are on my dashboard.

    It's currently showing sensor 1 as "closed" and sensor 2 as open.

    What exactly does that mean?

    Also, how much of the sensor has to be covered or uncovered to show the water as full or that it needs more? I'm trying to figure out where to position the ATK.

    Lastly, the magnets don't seem all that strong considering the glass walls in my sump are probably less than a quarter inch. I'm finding that when the ATO pump pushes water through the lines, the ATK tends to rotate a bit. Any suggestions for keeping it fixed?

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Closed means covered. It will show as covered is about a 1/8" of the pyramid is under water.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Closed means covered. It will show as covered is about a 1/8" of the pyramid is under water.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    So my low sensor currently shows as closed. Which makes sense.

    However, my high sensor also shows as closed yet it's not underwater.

    Is that normal?

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    I ended up using a piece of egg crate against the glass to support the ATO unit and stop it rotating. I actually used the eggcrate not only to support the unit but also section of a area in the return area for bagged filter material and some live rock.

    Sent from my LG-V522 using Tapatalk

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
    So my low sensor currently shows as closed. Which makes sense.

    However, my high sensor also shows as closed yet it's not underwater.

    Is that normal?
    Not normal. That means it's either dirty or you didn't seat the jack all the way in to the click.

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    I really would like to be able to relabel the switches in Apex Fusion .... Closed being dry and open being wet. It would make the status of these switches more intutive.

    Would be a useful feature in a future version.

    Sent from my LG-V522 using Tapatalk

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Not normal. That means it's either dirty or you didn't seat the jack all the way in to the click.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    It's brand spanking new, so it shouldn't be dirty yet. I'll give it a wipe down just to be on the safe side. I'll also check the connections, but I'm almost completely certain I have them both plugged in correctly. Pretty simple as it's just a 3.5mm jack. Push it till it stops. That being said, I'll check it again.

    Although, as I'm writing this, the lower sensor is showing closed (aka covered, thanks for the that tip) and the the top sensor is showing open. Maybe the top sensor was just wet or something at the time...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineGP View Post
    I really would like to be able to relabel the switches in Apex Fusion .... Closed being dry and open being wet. It would make the status of these switches more intutive.

    Would be a useful feature in a future version.

    Sent from my LG-V522 using Tapatalk
    Agreed. Zombie's tip of remembering closed as covered with water is helpful though. Being able to relabel them as wet would be nice. Same for the leak sensors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarineGP View Post
    I ended up using a piece of egg crate against the glass to support the ATO unit and stop it rotating. I actually used the eggcrate not only to support the unit but also section of a area in the return area for bagged filter material and some live rock.

    Sent from my LG-V522 using Tapatalk
    I'm cringing at the thought of another project with this apex classic to 2016 conversion I'm going through. I know it will be worth it in the long run, but this has been a monumental undertaking and an unbelievable amount of time. I basically scrapped all my old equipment and replaced everything with the apex version, except for return pump (reef octopus DC).

    So... I know why the unit is rotating now. When I put the tank in feed mode, I shut down the return pump. As the tank water drains into the sump and the water level rises, the float switch is so buoyant it rotates the entire unit as the water level increased. The magnet is pretty weak on this thing in general and it's completely overwhelmed by the float.

    So, with that being said, how risky is it run this unit without the float switch? Can you simply set the fallback to off and limit pump run time so that if the connection is lost it's shut down and even if the first and second sensor went bad, it would say shut down after 5 mins? It would seem like you would be covered if properly programmed.

    Thoughts?

    The Tunze it's replacing has a sensor, as well as a tiny float switch integrated into the middle of the unit on a vertical rail so it went straight up and down and had little to no buoyancy. The Apex ATO's float is massive and hangs off the side of the unit causing it to tilt and lose position when the sump fills.

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    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
    Pretty simple as it's just a 3.5mm jack. Push it till it stops. That being said, I'll check it again.
    Not entirely. They didn't design quite enough clearance into the jack so you really have to force it in pretty hard. If you hear an audible click it's in all the way, but if you just press it until it stops and didn't hear the click, it's loose.




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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post
    So, with that being said, how risky is it run this unit without the float switch? Can you simply set the fallback to off and limit pump run time so that if the connection is lost it's shut down and even if the first and second sensor went bad, it would say shut down after 5 mins? It would seem like you would be covered if properly programmed.
    Not very risky as long as you have a small reservoir relative to tank size and you have made absolutely certain there is no way it could ever siphon into the tank.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Not entirely. They didn't design quite enough clearance into the jack so you really have to force it in pretty hard. If you hear an audible click it's in all the way, but if you just press it until it stops and didn't hear the click, it's loose.




    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Everything is plugged in securely now. I'm not sure if something was loose or not, but I know for sure every input on the FMM is nice and snug.

    I went ahead and tested the unit by pulling it entirely out of the water. Both the high and the low remained open.

    It didn't happening instantly like on my Tunze, but the ATO pump did eventually kick on and start pumping water.

    I slid it down and the water stopped and the low sensor now displayed as closed. I shoved it down further and they both showed as closed.

    So far so good.

    Confirming... The water should kick on when the low sensor is out of the water? And it should shut the ATO pump off when the low sensor is out of the water? And as a backup, the high sensor is looking for water and if it shows itself covered with water it will also shut the ATO pump off? And finally, the float valve simply closes on itself if both the low sensor and the high sensor fail?

    Do I have that about right?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by deputydog95 View Post

    Confirming... The water should kick on when the low sensor is out of the water? And it should shut the ATO pump off when the low sensor is out of the water? And as a backup, the high sensor is looking for water and if it shows itself covered with water it will also shut the ATO pump off? And finally, the float valve simply closes on itself if both the low sensor and the high sensor fail?

    Do I have that about right?
    Yes, but there are delays and failsafes. It needs to be out of the water for 10 seconds continuously before turning on, and it can't have run in the last hour. To turn off, it needs to be covered for 4 seconds continuously and if it stays on for 5 minutes in a row, it will failsafe to manual OFF

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Not very risky as long as you have a small reservoir relative to tank size and you have made absolutely certain there is no way it could ever siphon into the tank.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    My ATO reservoir tank is about 5 gallons, but only typically has 3 gallons in it. The water level in the ATO reservoir is actually lower than the water level in the sump.

    There's no chance of the this unit back siphoning into the ATO reservoir when I turn the return pump off, is there?


    I may have found a solution for the ATK unit moving around where I can keep the float valve. There's a thinner glass panel inside the sump (bubble trap with a sponge) that is adjacent to my return pump chamber. It's about half as thick as the outer sump panels.

    I tried it out and the magnet is much more solid there. I turned the return pump off, the sump filled, and the ATK unit did not rotate. Yeah!

    Question though... Is the outer magnet sealed as both magnets are now going to be exposed to water in their current position.

  14. #14
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The magnet is sealed. And there is no risk of back siphon if the float is installed.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The magnet is sealed. And there is no risk of back siphon if the float is installed.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Fantastic!

    One more sub project of this massive transition, done!

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    Ok, more questions. I'm sorry!


    I shut most of components down to do a water change this evening.

    What I took out for water was a little more than what I put in.

    My ATO outlet and my ATO pump were both switched off during the water change.

    I went ahead and turned everything back on as usual, and as expected, the water in my sump was a little low.

    However, both high and low sensors are showing open, the slider for the pump power is showing as "on", the green light is "on" on the FMM module, but no water is coming out and the pump is not on....

    What am I missing here? Is there some weird fail safe if the power if turned off that the unit won't pump water for a while? Doesn't make sense though as the slider for the pump power is showing as "on"

    Suggestions?


    UPDATE: As soon as I posted this, I noticed that the ATO pump slider turned itself to off. No water still and the high and low sensors are still showing as open.

    ATK Programming.png





    ATO Dashboard.png

  17. #17
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    Ok, I'm so embarrassed I didn't check this first.

    Rat's nest strikes again. The power cord to the FMM fell out... Sigh.

    I'm sorry guys. I'll make sure I check all wiring next time this whole wiring situation is worked out.

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