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Thread: fallback vs set

  1. #1
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    fallback vs set

    Hi,
    I'm new to Neptune system. I recently purchased the Apex Controller. Able to finish network and email set up, now I'm working on outlet set up and programming. Of course, after a lot of reading, I still cant differentiate fallback vs set. It seems to me that fallback is what you want to happen to the outlet after it gets disconnected to the brain. Would appreciate any help.
    Thanks,
    Jon

  2. #2
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Yes. Fallback is an emergency mode of sorts - should a module be unable to communicate with the Apex base unit, the Fallback setting will go into effect. Currently it is supported for EB8, EB4, and EB6 outlets and Vortech pump outlets, and maybe Radion and Hydra/Vega outlets (not positive about these last ones)

    Set is used to establish the default state of an outlet under normal program control.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  3. #3
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    Thanks RussM. Lets say this is a set up for a light. If it gets disconnected to the brain, it will keep the power on and will go back to what parameters I want. However, if I set the Set Off, it will just turn on, wont remember the parameters? Is this correct?

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Time 11:00 to 19:00 Then ON
    If Temp > 81.0 Then OFF

  4. #4
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    If it gets disconnected to the brain, it will keep the power on and will go back to what parameters I want.
    I do not understand what you mean by parameters.


    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Time 11:00 to 19:00 Then ON
    If Temp > 81.0 Then OFF
    This won't work. The light will be on all of the time, unless the temp exceeds 81.0 The Set statement needs to be Set OFF in this case.

    Fallback ON
    Set OFF
    If Time 11:00 to 19:00 Then ON
    If Temp > 81.0 Then OFF

    Now, the outlet will normally be OFF except it will be ON during the desired lighting period of 11:00 - 19:00. Should the temp be high, the If Time statement will be overridden by the If Temp statement, shutting the outlet off until the temp drops below 81

    A guideline for using Set -

    If the device will normally be on more than half of the time, use Set ON, then use If statements to turn it OFF as needed - return pumps, wavemaker/circulation pumps, skimmers, reactor pumps, etc. typically fall into this category
    If the device will normally be off more than half of the time, use Set OFF, then use If statements to turn it ON as needed - all forms of lighting are usually handled this way, along with, ATO pumps and such.

    If using a variable speed device like Vortech MP## or Tunze STREAM pumps, it gets a bit trickier, because there is the added option to assign a profile via a Set statement besides just ON or OFF. But, a similar concept applies... use Set profilename to assign the profile which will be used most of the time (or at least more often than other profiles).... this can streamline the programming quite a bit.

    [Vortech]
    Set Reefcrst
    If Time 08:00 to 10:00 Then Tidal
    If Time 12:00 to 14:00 Then Tidal
    If Time 16:00 to 18:00 Then Tidal

    The above is much cleaner and shorter than assigning the ReefCrst profile through the use of multiple If Time statements.

  5. #5
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    Thanks.

  6. #6
    Wanna Be Control Freak RickHrdlicka's Avatar
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    Personally I would not use fallback on for lights. The lights would not follow the program if communication is lost they will just be on. Could be on for a long time.

  7. #7
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RickHrdlicka View Post
    Personally I would not use fallback on for lights. The lights would not follow the program if communication is lost they will just be on. Could be on for a long time.
    I totally agree. Lights, skimmers, etc are not critical in the short term, and are best left at Fallback OFF, IMO. Fallback ON is best reserved for maintaining water movement. Fallback ON or OFF really boils down to personal preference and the particular setup of a given system though.

  8. #8
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    I have to disagree. I think any device with it's own on/off switch that's not dependent on any other device for its operation should have fallback ON.

    Consider when you would use Fallback. Your controller is down for some reason. You have to send it back to Neptune. What do you do in the interim? With Fallback OFF, your EBx is just a brick. You would have to disconnect everything, find extension cords, power strips, etc. That's a cluster.

    However, with Fallback ON you at least have a power strip that everything is already connected to. You can operate your devices - your skimmer, return pump, UV, reactor..all will continue to function. If you don't want them on, then turn their power switch OFF. I don't see how having your skimmer continue to run is a problem.

    Now, clearly you don't want fallback ON for dosing pumps for example so you have to use your head. But having that EBx function as a dumb power strip IMO is a big benefit.
    Al

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    Comprehensive Reference Manual can be found here.

  9. #9
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    I can't fault your logic. But I will take a different approach As I summed it up - "Fallback ON or OFF really boils down to personal preference and the particular setup of a given system though."
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  10. #10
    Wanna Be Control Freak RickHrdlicka's Avatar
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    If my lights are out, I would have to drag out the timers and extension cords anyways.

    definitely don't trust my heaters with a fallback on.

  11. #11
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    so here is my programming for my sump light, how ever it remains on. What do i need to change? I want it off during the day and come on at night. I also would like it to come on when i'm doing my feedings.

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Time 20:30 to 08:00 Then ON
    If Time 08:01 to 20:29 Then OFF
    If Tmp > 81.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 001:00 Then OFF
    If Output RIGHT_PUMP = OFF Then ON
    If Output LEFT_PUMP = OFF Then ON
    If FeedA 000 Then ON

    This is for my skimmer: (but it won't turn on)

    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Output RIGHT_PUMP = OFF Then OFF
    If Output LEFT_PUMP = OFF Then OFF
    Defer 003:00 Then ON

  12. #12
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Time 20:30 to 08:00 Then ON
    If Time 08:01 to 20:29 Then OFF <--- Unnecessary due to the Set OFF
    If Tmp > 81.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 001:00 Then OFF <---- If this is to allow the tank to cool down, it doesnt seem long enough
    If Output RIGHT_PUMP = OFF Then ON <---- These two lines will keep the light on if the pumps are off, not sure why
    If Output LEFT_PUMP = OFF Then ON <---- you need to do that?
    If FeedA 000 Then ON

  13. #13
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You need to make sure both pumps are ON and make these changes.

    Sump Light
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Time 20:30 to 08:00 Then ON
    If Output RIGHT_PUMP = OFF Then ON
    If Output LEFT_PUMP = OFF Then ON
    If FeedA 000 Then ON

    Skimmer
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Output RIGHT_PUMP = OFF Then OFF
    If Output LEFT_PUMP = OFF Then OFF
    Defer 003:00 Then ON[/QUOTE]



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  14. #14
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    Thanks, so i did this and light stays on, and skimmer stays off with these settings.

  15. #15
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    If the skimmer is OFF then that means one of those two pumps is off.

    Do you want the skimmer to turn OFF if either pump is off, or if both are off?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

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