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Thread: Yes Virginia, there IS a Fusion....

  1. #51
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    This is true, my fingers typed faster than my brain


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    Wannabe Control Freak jvelkgrove's Avatar
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    I hear it will cure baldness.
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  3. #53
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    You still need a connection between the Apex and the interwebs for Fusion to work
    100% correct
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  4. #54
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    So is Fusion a software upgrade, new hardware or what? Will it be a free update or will it cost us? Can someone shed some light on this?

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    When's it coming????????

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  6. #56
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    Yes Fusion will be free. Its a cloud based program so it eliminates a lot of the port forwarding stuff. Also its built upon HTML5 with Mobile being solely supported so you can control your system from your ipad,iphone,basically anything that supports HTML5.

    Make sure your running the latest firmware and you will be ready when it releases.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by gsgentry View Post
    So is Fusion a software upgrade, new hardware or what? Will it be a free update or will it cost us? Can someone shed some light on this?
    From what has been said so far, and I'm sure someone will correct if I'm wrong...

    Fusion is a cloud-based service that will allow many new features. To use Fusion, you will need to upgrade to the latest firmware, which at this point is 4.31.something. It will work on all Apex controllers with current firmware. Some level of the service will be free and it sounds like additional features will be available for a price.

    If you want more info, there's a lot of info in this thread:

    http://forum.neptunesystems.com/show...-Announcements

  8. #58
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    Edit nm

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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt_n View Post
    Fusion is a cloud-based service
    I have not yet had any confirmation that it is actually "cloud based" and not just a hosted application on decent hardware. Despite me repeatedly asking we still haven't been told who's cloud they are using, how many end points in the cloud or what regions those end points will be located in.

    People saying "the cloud" when they are really doing standard hosting out of a well connected DC is one of my major pet peeves. The "cloud" means something very specific and I would really like some confirmation as to what, exactly, fusion really is. Even just knowing whos cloud they are using would help to assuage my concerns.

    EDIT: I just want to make it clear that this isn't me being down on Fusion. It looks great. However if it is not actually cloud based using something like Amazon's EC3 or EC2 clouds with end points rationally located in multiple regions then your ability to use a real time service like Fusion will entirely depend on your geographic location and the various peering agreements your particular ISP has in place to move traffic around. Using a large Tier 3 DC provider will somewhat mitigate these issues, but it will not completely remove them. That is why we have "the cloud" in the first place. I am extremely worried that they are using "the cloud" as a marketing term and will leave many users out in the cold and with a bitter taste in their mouths due to accessibility issues.

  10. #60
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    OK. Since I don't know the specifics...

    "Fusion is a service that acts as an intermediary between your Apex and you."

    Better?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    I have not yet had any confirmation that it is actually "cloud based" and not just a hosted application on decent hardware. Despite me repeatedly asking we still haven't been told who's cloud they are using, how many end points in the cloud or what regions those end points will be located in.

    People saying "the cloud" when they are really doing standard hosting out of a well connected DC is one of my major pet peeves. The "cloud" means something very specific and I would really like some confirmation as to what, exactly, fusion really is. Even just knowing whos cloud they are using would help to assuage my concerns.

    EDIT: I just want to make it clear that this isn't me being down on Fusion. It looks great. However if it is not actually cloud based using something like Amazon's EC3 or EC2 clouds with end points rationally located in multiple regions then your ability to use a real time service like Fusion will entirely depend on your geographic location and the various peering agreements your particular ISP has in place to move traffic around. Using a large Tier 3 DC provider will somewhat mitigate these issues, but it will not completely remove them. That is why we have "the cloud" in the first place. I am extremely worried that they are using "the cloud" as a marketing term and will leave many users out in the cold and with a bitter taste in their mouths due to accessibility issues.
    Wrong. I work for Microsoft's cloud group (called Azure) and "the cloud" is a very loose term and it's okay that it is. While I have yet to get my hands on Fusion it looks like it's a hosted service running on servers. It's free to us users so don't expect serious geo-redundancy. Your Apex will continue to function even if it looses connection to the servers. Don't worry. The server end of things has been setup to allow more complex features to be enabled such as Radion/ AI lighting control and email alerts that are depended on 3rd party services. As an end user the only concern you should have is what happens when you lose connectivity. As Neptune has already stated though, your Apex will continue to run.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee144 View Post
    ...As an end user the only concern you should have is what happens when you lose connectivity....
    Uhhh, no. Can I be concerned about security also? Currently, for better or worse, I'm in charge of the security with respect to access to my Apex. Using Fusion, I've now given Neptune that responsibility. Not saying they won't do a fine job... just saying that is a HUGE concern with anything I have that is "cloud" based.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurt_n View Post
    Uhhh, no. Can I be concerned about security also? Currently, for better or worse, I'm in charge of the security with respect to access to my Apex. Using Fusion, I've now given Neptune that responsibility. Not saying they won't do a fine job... just saying that is a HUGE concern with anything I have that is "cloud" based.
    Don't worry I'm sure the NSA has paid Neptune $10 million like they did with RSA encryption for a back door to be installed in their software. Yes, the NSA seriously wants to check out your fish tanks.

    If you're that caught up though you can opt out of Fusion and continue to stay local and quit your worrying though. Even then though I'd just drop a USB drive outside your house with a little black magic on it and of course you being the curious user you are will plug it into your computer and grant me access to your network and I've got access to your apex. Thanks!

  14. #64
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    Let's be real,
    Like it or not cloud is the future, which comes with a compromise for all.. Data security. There is no real way the risk will ever be mitigated. I'm sure there will be those who cling onto their thumb drives, nas's and cd's for dear life. Eventually it will all go away and we're left to the mercy of the almighty cloud. But seriously, it's not that bad


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  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by bee144 View Post
    Don't worry I'm sure the NSA has paid Neptune $10 million like they did with RSA encryption for a back door to be installed in their software. Yes, the NSA seriously wants to check out your fish tanks.

    If you're that caught up though you can opt out of Fusion and continue to stay local and quit your worrying though. Even then though I'd just drop a USB drive outside your house with a little black magic on it and of course you being the curious user you are will plug it into your computer and grant me access to your network and I've got access to your apex. Thanks!
    Not at all what I was saying, but if it makes you feel better I'm glad I could brighten your day!

    [...logs out while adjusting tin foil hat...]

  16. #66
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Tone it down, gentlemen. Keep it objective. Leave the jagged little barbs in your fishing tackle box.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  17. #67
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    I am not worried about security, I am worried about connectivity. This is a real time service so if you are in say Europe and they are hosted out of Level 3 in LA, then you are going to have a big problem. That is assuming they use a tier 3 provider like Level 3. East to west coast connectivity for Canada is also traditionally crap. Fusion is a perfect candidate for geo-redundancy and no, "the cloud" is not a new name for traditional hosted services that have been around for decades. If this is a single endpoint hosted solution, then the idea that everyone is going to be able to use Fusion as advertised is fantasy plain and simple.

    This is an extremely relevant question as Neptune has indicated that they will be concentrating development of new features for Fusion and not for the stand alone Apex. If users are not able to utilize fusion because of their geographic location, then they are over paying for a product that doesn't function as advertised. I can't see that being a good thing for the platform as a whole.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by pseudonym View Post
    I am not worried about security, I am worried about connectivity. This is a real time service so if you are in say Europe and they are hosted out of Level 3 in LA, then you are going to have a big problem. That is assuming they use a tier 3 provider like Level 3. East to west coast connectivity for Canada is also traditionally crap. Fusion is a perfect candidate for geo-redundancy and no, "the cloud" is not a new name for traditional hosted services that have been around for decades. If this is a single endpoint hosted solution, then the idea that everyone is going to be able to use Fusion as advertised is fantasy plain and simple.

    This is an extremely relevant question as Neptune has indicated that they will be concentrating development of new features for Fusion and not for the stand alone Apex. If users are not able to utilize fusion because of their geographic location, then they are over paying for a product that doesn't function as advertised. I can't see that being a good thing for the platform as a whole.
    I doubt we're going to get a detailed breakdown if neptune systems network infrastructure, not are they required to provide that information. They are providing a product with a service. Based on neptune's history of quality products and customer service, I trust they have done their research, not cut corners and put the right people behind the wheel.


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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by mpeaden2 View Post
    I doubt we're going to get a detailed breakdown if neptune systems network infrastructure, not are they required to provide that information. They are providing a product with a service. Based on neptune's history of quality products and customer service, I trust they have done their research, not cut corners and put the right people behind the wheel.


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    I am not asking for a detailed network breakdown. Simply asking who's cloud they are running this on or if this is a traditional hosted setup in a DC with no geo-replication. If it is a traditional setup, I would like to know how they address those who will not be able to access the system as advertised without significant issues. These are not hard, nor technically challenging questions. They should have already been answered and that they aren't is extremely concerning.

  20. #70
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    They are using amazon. Sounds robust to me.

  21. #71
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    I don't care if it's hosted off a sat phone from the South Pole. Please bring it on.

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  22. #72
    Wanna Be Control Freak RickHrdlicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GainesvilleReef View Post
    I don't care if it's hosted off a sat phone from the South Pole. Please bring it on.

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    LOL

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    300g Mixed Reef with Full apex, PM1, ALD, AWM, AFS, PM2

  23. #73
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    I did notice this morning there is a "Link" link in the fusion area of my dashboard. I clicked it and it gave me a token. Hmm.

  24. #74
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    All that is, is the unique ID for your controller. It will change every 10 minutes. If you have that, your controller is already talking to a Fusion server. So Fusion knows about your controller now.

    Once the limited beta is finished and Neptune opens Fusion to the wider beta and then general release, you'll use that token to connect your controller to a unique userid and password that you'll create when you register.
    Al

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    First time poster here and new Apex owner (RKL Convert). I work in IT and the relevance of what sort of framework is built off is not the question. A server here in the US can be accessed anywhere in the world. The "cloud" term is a very vague marketing term as it refers to multiple different computing platforms. It just a term to denote something outside and hosted. You can have software and hardware in the "cloud". It makes no difference what platform they set it up on, it can be in my basement for all anyone is concerned and it still would be accessible. All Fusion is is a different, hosted GUI for your apex. All programming gets transferred from fusion to the local Apex so even it it looses connectivity, the local Apex is still running. Not sure why people try to make a big deal out of nothing. It's and added feature (a heck of a good one). Nothing more, nothing less,

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