Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: What happens to Tunze Powerheads with Safety Connectors connected to an APEX when Power goes out?

  1. #1
    Frequent Visitor BertL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA
    Posts
    775

    What happens to Tunze Powerheads with Safety Connectors connected to an APEX when Power goes out?

    I'm finishing initial programming of my APEX, awaiting remaining cabinetry to be finished so I can get going on the plumbing. I have dual GFCI circuits, separated devices (like heaters, pumps, and lights) across circuits, and have a relatively large UPS with EB4 and two of my Tunze 6105 powerheads, along with separate 12V power for the APEX to ensure I will be notified if there is a power outage. My plan is to drop the speed of the 6105s if my APEX notices a power outage of more than a few seconds, to reduce power consumption and hopefully let them run a little bit longer while the UPS battery is being exhausted.... I have further purchased 6105.500 Tunze Safety Connectors for those powerheads with the intent that when the UPS (and therefore the APEX) runs out of power, the two powerheads will automatically begin using battery backup until that eventually fails...

    Thanks to all the examples here (Russ, Al, others!) I've done all the programming and initial testing I can without yet having water in my tank... Tides, varying lighting based on TOD, random weather with stormy seas, a custom feed button, ATO, high/low sump and door sensors, etc. ...but, I'm now on to how I want my APEX to work when the power goes out.

    What happens to Tunze Powerheads connected via APEX Base Unit or VDM when the APEX looses power, but the Powerheads have the Tunze Safety Connectors attached to appropriate battery backup? Do the powerheads still run on battery? Do they run at full speed when on the battery, or perhaps run at the speed they were operating at when the APEX lost power? ...or are they just plain dead like the APEX is if the base unit looses power (I hope NOT!)?

    I know from correspondence with Roger at Tunze that if I had the Tunze 6105 Powerheads with their Safety Connectors controlled by one of Tunze's Controllers (not an APEX), they would automatically switch to battery backup when power goes out -- but they can't represent what happens when the powerheads are attached to an APEX or VDM. Anyone know the answer? If not, I'll post in a couple months once I get water in my tank and can try it out myself -- or sooner if I decide to test it with buckets of water. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor BertL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA
    Posts
    775
    OK, this is a bit odd answering my own question, but for posterity sake and give back to this forum should someone else be trying to figure out power backup solutions with Tunze Pumps being controlled by their APEX, here goes. It will hopefully save someone else the hours of inconclusive research I tried to do on this and many other forums the last few weeks...

    The short answer is, as soon as the Neptune module controlling the Tunze Pump (APEX Base or VDM -- whichever the pump control cable is plugged into) looses power, UNFORTUNATELY, the pump stops -- even if the pump has both normal power and battery backup via the 6105.500 Safety Connector operational. I'm bummed as this means the Tunze Safety Connectors will not work in an APEX controlled environment.

    Of note: If one has an APEX plus a VDM, and you control your Tunze Pump via the VDM (opposed to the Base unit), and remove power and aquabus connectivity from the Base Unit while the VDM still has power another way, the Tunze Pump continues to operate and the Safety Connector automatic cutover works back-and-forth as designed. The Pump continues to operate even as power is reapplied to the APEX Base Unit and all the modules connect back up and continue their programming.

    For those wondering how the physical Tunze connection works:

    The single Tunze Pump cable (that comes up from the pump within your tank) goes to a built-in splitter box at the end of that cable, which in turn connects to both: A) Neptune splitter control cable into Base APEX or VDM -and- B) From 110V to the Tunze Power Adapter into that same splitter box.

    If one installs the Tunze Safety Connector 6105.500, it's power line plugs into the splitter box (B above), and you then run your 110V to the Tunze Power Adapter to the Safety Connecter AND connect your backup battery (e.g. 12V source) into the Safety Connector as well. The Safety Connector normally drives the Tunze Power Adapter power to the pump, and when it senses that power is lost (e.g. a power outage), it automatically switches over and uses the backup battery (e.g. 12V source) if it's available.

    In a non-APEX environment, one would have a Tunze Controller (e.g. 7095) plugged into the end of each pump cable splitter box (in lieu of the Neptune splitter cable). Interestingly, the Tunze Controllers do not have power cords of the own.

    I wanted to plug 2 of my Tunze Pumps into a UPS that I have in place to keep power running for them and my APEX during a power outage (estimated 2 hr+ capacity for all 3 devices), then using the Tunze Safety Connectors, have another 12V battery that would keep a couple of my Tunze Pumps running for another day or so when my UPS is out of power including that to the APEX -- effectively like what seems to be possible with Vortec Pumps and the standard Ecotech Battery Backup solution.

    In summary:

    It appears that a non-APEX solution where the Tunze pump control signals are managed by a Tunze controller works as it should when one of the two power sources is lost to the Tunze Safety Connector, BUT... if you instead use an APEX like I am to provide the pump control signal, when the APEX or VDM looses power, the Tunze Pumps being controlled by that module shut down even if power to the pump itself is still available via the Tunze Safety Connector.

    Given this constraint, I may well end up redesigning my power backup such that my UPS only serves power to the APEX and I immediately use my 12V batteries for pump power ... Not going through the AC-DC-AC conversion on my UPS will provide longer life to my pumps that way, and with only the APEX on the UPS, with some quick calculations, it should remain operational for 6+ hours. I don't know... I'll have to think about it and maybe purchase a Tunze controller to manually insert so my pumps can keep running if I get in a worst-case multi-hour power outage
    scenario. Shucks -- and I thought I had this all automated!!!

  3. #3
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    US
    Posts
    78
    Thanks for posting this, I have had a different plan in the works and with your information it has helped me figure out what I think I need to do.

    I am planning on using two Belkin UPS systems to provide direct DC voltage in the event of a power outage to power my Apex "Brain", Netgear Gaming Adapter, and my Tunze Silence via the safety connector. Since I am not attempting to run the EB and then fail-safe to 12v as your system was intended, I think I would be able to get around the issue you experienced. As long as the batteries are powering the Apex to tell it to keep the VDM to the silence going, I would think that the pump would operate. I was even thinking of creating a specific parameter to have the pump run at the lowest speed and maybe intermittently to conserve battery power. I have a ups powered router as well.

    I am using two batteries from this supplier that fit the Belikin and upgrade it to a 9ah rating. So with two together I will be 18ah which should be a decent amount to run my apex, wifi, and tunze pump.

  4. #4
    Frequent Visitor
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    US
    Posts
    78
    Finally got my setup going and I am having issues.

    The Pump does not function at all when the safety connector is put into the system while the Apex Control cable is plugged into the Tunze Splitter/Pot box. If I disconnect the apex control cable the pump will function from power on 110 side and 12v back up side. But once that control cable is connected it stops, it does not matter if the Apex has power from wall or a batter back up.

    Posted on the thread in Tuzne subforum at RC also.

  5. #5
    New User
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    US, Pacific
    Posts
    2
    Bala de Plata - did you get your issue resolved? I had had the same plan - to use two Bellkin power supplies, one for the apex and one for the Tunze pump via safety connector. I'd love to understand better what your issue was and how it was resolved

  6. #6
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Don't even bother with the tunze safety connector. For the same price you can buy a small UPS to plug the apex power supply and the tunze into and another one for your router to alert you. Using the power EB8 line, you can lower the speed of the Tunze and get 12 hours easily off a $50 UPS. If you don't mind spending extra, you can get a UPS that is capable of powering an entire EB8 (though you would want to turn off lights and heaters) for about 12 hours in the $150-$200 price range.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  7. #7
    New User
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    US, Pacific
    Posts
    2
    Hey Zombie - my thought is with a DC backup for the Tunze and for the Apex, the battery life should be much much better and more efficient. I expect I'll need a much larger UPS to last the same time with something that is converting DC to AC back to DC again. I'd like a backup that will last several days if possible.

  8. #8
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    13,176
    Not once you factor in the cost. To use a battery backup, you need a 50 dollar part for the tunze, a 50 dollar battery charger, a 12V voltage regulator so you don't overvolt the apex and blow it, and the battery itself. Gets pricey real quick. A 1500VA UPS will set you back $150 for comparable capacity and UPS efficiency is usually in the 96% or better range. The power supplies are similar in efficiency.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

Similar Threads

  1. Help! Please help with 2 Tunze 6055 powerbeads connected to APEX
    By X_chinese in forum Apex Programming for Vortech, Tunze, & Other Controllable Pumps
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-25-2019, 11:48
  2. My Apex Programing for 2 Tunze 6055 Powerheads
    By joshrhykerd in forum Misc Apex Usage & Programming
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-23-2019, 10:51
  3. Question: Program 4 Tunze Powerheads
    By jeeperrs in forum Apex Programming for Vortech, Tunze, & Other Controllable Pumps
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-10-2016, 16:38
  4. Question: Use of small UPS and Tunze safety connector
    By PatrikD in forum Apex Programming for Vortech, Tunze, & Other Controllable Pumps
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-30-2015, 13:30
  5. Question: New Apex user; Controllable Tunze pumps on EB8 while connected to V1/V2
    By philipr in forum Apex Classic/Apex Lite/Apex Jr
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-08-2015, 11:43

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •