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Thread: Help with anti-sync tunze pumps

  1. #1
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    Help with anti-sync tunze pumps

    Ok im trying to figure out how to get my pumps to anti-sync to one another like they did with the 7095 controller, so basically if one pump is on FAST then the other is on SLOW then keep them alternating back and forth basically anti-sync to each other.

    Tunze_Right
    Set Midday
    Fallback ON
    If Time 09:00 to 11:00 Then Morning
    If Time 11:01 to 18:00 Then Midday
    If Time 18:01 to 20:00 Then Morning
    If Time 20:01 to 08:59 Then Night
    If Outlet Timer1 OFF then SLOW
    If FeedA 005 Then OFF

    Tunze_Left
    Set Midday
    Fallback ON
    If Time 09:00 to 11:00 Then Morning
    If Time 11:01 to 18:00 Then Midday
    If Time 18:01 to 20:00 Then Morning
    If Time 20:01 to 08:59 Then Night
    If Outlet Timer1 = ON Then FAST
    If FeedA 005 Then OFF

    Outlet Timer1
    OSC 002:00/001:00/000:00 Then ON
    If Time 20:01 to 08:59 Then OFF

    Outlet Timer2
    If Outlet Tunze_Right the Tunze_Left anti sync????

    Fast Profile
    40% to 100%

    Slow Profile
    10%-40%

  2. #2
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    I've been struggling with similar programming (I think, if I read your intent properly). I wish Neptune would give us the ability to duplicate the Vortech programming through code.

    The issues I see with your code:
    1. I'm not sure what use the Morning/Midday/Night profiles have as written. If Timer1 is ON, the Fast profile overrides those for the left Tunze, and if it's off, the Slow profile overrides those on the right. Is that intended?
    2. Per Tunze, running the pump between 1-29% is bad for it. So for the slow profile, I'd do 0-40%, if that's a wave as I assume it is.
    3. The Left Tunze will always (and only) get the Fast profile, and the Right Tunze will always (and only) get the Slow profile.

    What are you trying to do? Anti-sync the pumps with increasing strength through the day?

  3. #3
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    Re-reading your post, I think you just want them to alternate all day and then go into Night mode. You could do something like this for one of them, and the opposite for the other:
    Code:
    Tunze_Right
    Set FAST
    Fallback FAST
    If Outlet Timer1 = OFF then SLOW
    If Time 20:01 to 08:59 Then Night
    If FeedA 005 Then OFF 
    I think that would work. So, without testing it, it should set the Right Tunze to FAST, and fallback to FAST in the event of disconnection from the control unit. If the Timer is off, then it goes into Slow. Anytime between 8pm and 9am, it's in night, and it will turn off when you hit feed.

    Code:
    Tunze_Left
    Set SLOW
    Fallback SLOW
    If Outlet Timer1 = OFF then FAST
    If Time 20:01 to 08:59 Then Night
    If FeedA 005 Then OFF
    Similar for the left, but opposite the right.

    Also - if you create two profiles next to each other, I believe you can set them to sync with an option (if they're pump profiles) and then add in a delay which would essentially anti-sync them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msderganc View Post

    Also - if you create two profiles next to each other, I believe you can set them to sync with an option (if they're pump profiles) and then add in a delay which would essentially anti-sync them.
    Great on profiles above, now on to this statement, please elaborate? thanks

  5. #5
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICEMAN330824 View Post
    so basically if one pump is on FAST then the other is on SLOW then keep them alternating back and forth basically anti-sync to each other.
    What kind of periodicity are you looking for with this alternating/anti-sync action? seconds, minutes, hours?
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    What kind of periodicity are you looking for with this alternating/anti-sync action? seconds, minutes, hours?
    I would like for them to switch or anti sync every 60 seconds or 1 minute

  7. #7
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    To do synchronized & alternating Tunze pumps, you need to use pairs of profiles; in your case, one profile for the left pump and one for the right.

    [ TunzeLeft ] ( PF1 )
    Type: Pump
    Synchronize: Disable
    Divide By 10: Disable
    Initial Off Time: 0
    On Time: 60
    Off Time: 60
    Minimum Intensity: 30
    Maximum Intensity: 100

    [ TunzeRight ] ( PF2 )
    Type: Pump
    Synchronize: Enable
    Divide By 10: Disable
    Initial Off Time: 60
    On Time: 60
    Off Time: 0
    Minimum Intensity: 30
    Maximum Intensity: 100

    Note the timing values used.... the first one has Initial OFF set to 0 and the Off Time set to 60 seconds, but the other profile is reversed. Both have the same 60-second On time. The first profile has sync disabled. The second of each pair has sync enabled.... the key here is that the profile with Sync enabled will be in lockstep with the first one. But because of the different timing, it will be at 30% when the first pump is at 100% and vice versa... in essence, the anti-sync you are looking for. There's a catch... the matching profiles must be consecutive (like PF1 and PF2, or PF27 and PF28) *and* the profile without sync enabled must be an odd-numbered PF# & the one with sync enabled must be an even-numbered one. For example, PF4 will sync with PF3, but PF5 will not sync with PF4.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    To do synchronized & alternating Tunze pumps, you need to use pairs of profiles; in your case, one profile for the left pump and one for the right.

    [ TunzeLeft ] ( PF1 )
    Type: Pump
    Synchronize: Disable
    Divide By 10: Disable
    Initial Off Time: 0
    On Time: 60
    Off Time: 60
    Minimum Intensity: 30
    Maximum Intensity: 100

    [ TunzeRight ] ( PF2 )
    Type: Pump
    Synchronize: Enable
    Divide By 10: Disable
    Initial Off Time: 60
    On Time: 60
    Off Time: 0
    Minimum Intensity: 30
    Maximum Intensity: 100

    Note the timing values used.... the first one has Initial OFF set to 0 and the Off Time set to 60 seconds, but the other profile is reversed. Both have the same 60-second On time. The first profile has sync disabled. The second of each pair has sync enabled.... the key here is that the profile with Sync enabled will be in lockstep with the first one. But because of the different timing, it will be at 30% when the first pump is at 100% and vice versa... in essence, the anti-sync you are looking for. There's a catch... the matching profiles must be consecutive (like PF1 and PF2, or PF27 and PF28) *and* the profile without sync enabled must be an odd-numbered PF# & the one with sync enabled must be an even-numbered one. For example, PF4 will sync with PF3, but PF5 will not sync with PF4.
    excellent explanation. thanks

  9. #9
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    the profile without sync enabled must be an odd-numbered PF# & the one with sync enabled must be an even-numbered one.
    This was the "AHHA" for me. Thanks!!

  10. #10
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    This should be a sticky, I just programmed my 6095's simply and quickly with this.

    thanks

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    I agree that this is the best explanation I have read yet. I do have a question regarding the statement "the profile without sync enabled must be an odd-numbered PF# & the one with sync enabled must be an even-numbered one". What if you have 4 pumps, two on the left and two on the right, and you want all 4 to be synced as in this example - however, you want the two on the left to be at different intensities (eg, left-top is 30->80%, left bottom is 30->60%). I assume we would need to sync 4 profiles, then. Does this mean the first profile should be PF1, and the others be PF2, PF4, and PF6? Or would it work to use PF2, PF3, and PF4 with sync enabled on all 3?

    Thanks,

    Bob

  12. #12
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Additional profiles should be in sequence - don't skip any. Use 1,2,3,4. Or 15,16,17,18, for example.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    Does this work the same way on the Apex 2016? My two Tunze powerheads are pulsing like they should but they are synchronized even with the different on times.

  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotfrogs View Post
    Does this work the same way on the Apex 2016? My two Tunze powerheads are pulsing like they should but they are synchronized even with the different on times.
    Pumps profiles work exactly the same way as they do in Apex Classic models.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    To do synchronized & alternating Tunze pumps, you need to use pairs of profiles; in your case, one profile for the left pump and one for the right.

    [ TunzeLeft ] ( PF1 )
    Type: Pump
    Synchronize: Disable
    Divide By 10: Disable
    Initial Off Time: 0
    On Time: 60
    Off Time: 60
    Minimum Intensity: 30
    Maximum Intensity: 100

    [ TunzeRight ] ( PF2 )
    Type: Pump
    Synchronize: Enable
    Divide By 10: Disable
    Initial Off Time: 60
    On Time: 60
    Off Time: 0
    Minimum Intensity: 30
    Maximum Intensity: 100

    Note the timing values used.... the first one has Initial OFF set to 0 and the Off Time set to 60 seconds, but the other profile is reversed. Both have the same 60-second On time. The first profile has sync disabled. The second of each pair has sync enabled.... the key here is that the profile with Sync enabled will be in lockstep with the first one. But because of the different timing, it will be at 30% when the first pump is at 100% and vice versa... in essence, the anti-sync you are looking for. There's a catch... the matching profiles must be consecutive (like PF1 and PF2, or PF27 and PF28) *and* the profile without sync enabled must be an odd-numbered PF# & the one with sync enabled must be an even-numbered one. For example, PF4 will sync with PF3, but PF5 will not sync with PF4.
    In the above example, should the off time in PF2 be 60 like PF1? Doesn't the initial off time difference control the out of sync behavior?

  16. #16
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotfrogs View Post
    In the above example, should the off time in PF2 be 60 like PF1? Doesn't the initial off time difference control the out of sync behavior?
    No; the profile settings are correct to get an anti-sync, opposing action.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  17. #17
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    What am I doing wrong?I got them to anti-sync but they are turning completely off instead of alternating between 30% and 40% (anti-sync).
    Tunze settings.PNG

  18. #18
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Try increasing the Minimum Intensity; 30% may be too low. My 6040s, for example, won't run below 32-33%
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

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    I'm so glad this got brought back up. I'm running 2 tunze 6095 on my apex, with the Var Spd plug, and i cannot get them to anti sync. I have them set up exactly like is shown above except i am dividing by 10 and have the left (Varspd1) set at off 8, on 8, off 0. Then I have the right (vardpd2) sync, off 0, on 8, off 8. and for some reason they both ramp up and down at the same time. I actually made them run from 0%-100% just to be sure, and the are definitely cutting on and off at the same time. Anything you guys can think of that may help me resolve this?

  20. #20
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    I am still having issues but did determine that the slowest speed they work at is 35%. Roger at Tunze did confirm that it is also OK to use 0%. My current issue is that they currently run in this pattern: 1) Left on, 2) Right On, 3)both on and then 4)both off. They don't simply alternate like I would expect (with the minimum set to 0% and max to 35%).

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    Quote Originally Posted by GnarleyMarley View Post
    I'm so glad this got brought back up. I'm running 2 tunze 6095 on my apex, with the Var Spd plug, and i cannot get them to anti sync. I have them set up exactly like is shown above except i am dividing by 10 and have the left (Varspd1) set at off 8, on 8, off 0. Then I have the right (vardpd2) sync, off 0, on 8, off 8. and for some reason they both ramp up and down at the same time. I actually made them run from 0%-100% just to be sure, and the are definitely cutting on and off at the same time. Anything you guys can think of that may help me resolve this?
    I too have this issue when setting up as RUSSM kindly offered.

    They actually sync so both go on full and then off full.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gotfrogs View Post
    I am still having issues but did determine that the slowest speed they work at is 35%. Roger at Tunze did confirm that it is also OK to use 0%. My current issue is that they currently run in this pattern: 1) Left on, 2) Right On, 3)both on and then 4)both off. They don't simply alternate like I would expect (with the minimum set to 0% and max to 35%).
    Did you figure this out? I am having he exact same issue. My pumps cycle the same as yours.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GQuinn View Post
    Did you figure this out? I am having he exact same issue. My pumps cycle the same as yours.
    The way to solve this is to do the following.

    Using the classic dashboard sliders, slowly increase until the pump starts moving. That is your min maximum intensity. In the example below lets say this is 35%

    Once the pump is moving, slowly decrease the sliders until the pump stops moving. This is your max minimum intensity. In the example below lets say this is 25%.

    When you set your pump profiles set the minimum intensity about 20-25% below the max minumum intensity and the maximum intensity whatever you wish but no less than the min maximum intensity.

    Slow wave
    Min 20
    Max 35

    Full wave
    Min 20
    Max 100

    Or anything in between.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  24. #24
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    I just did some testing with Pump profiles with both an Apex Classic and an Apex (2016), each on the latest respective firmware/AOS version. I found that the info I gave in this thread way back in 2014 is now outdated - it has been quite a while since I last used sync w/ pump profiles, as I currently run my Tunze pumps in a free-wheeling manner, deliberately not synced for more chaotic flow. Somewhere along the line the Pump profile Synchronize behavior was enhanced, and IMO, improved.

    Enable Synchronize in both profiles (instead of just the second profile as I stated 3 years ago). Turn the variable outputs OFF momentarily then back to AUTO so the change takes effect. Also, it is no longer necessary to use contiguous profiles (i.e. PF1 & PF2 or PF7 & PF8, etc). Synchronize now works with non-adjacent profiles too, i.e. PF1 and PF10.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    Also, it is no longer necessary to use contiguous profiles (i.e. PF1 & PF2 or PF7 & PF8, etc). Synchronize now works with non-adjacent profiles too, i.e. PF1 and PF10.
    Russ, how has this change been made logic wise? If there are two sets of synch profiles for four pumps, how will it know which to synchronize against if they're not in ordered pairs as used to be required?

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