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Thread: CO2 Empty Program

  1. #1
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    CO2 Empty Program

    Dear Apex Gurus,

    Here's the goal. I want my Apex to send me an alarm when the pH in my Calcium Reactor rises above 7.00 (meaning the CO2 tank is empty). That part is easy and works fine. However, I'd like for the alarm to only happen once or twice per day, not once per hour.

    I know I could set it to only happen at a certain time of day with the "If Time" function, but I'd rather it notify me right away the first time, and then wait a while before sending out another notification.

    I have a virtual outlet set up for the Alarm, and it does work for a standard notification once per hour right now.

    My initial idea was to use the OSC function, but this doesn't seem to be working. Is it due to the "midnight reference" for OSC?:
    Set OFF
    If CaRx_pH > 7.00 Then ON
    OSC 000:00/060:00/660:00 Then ON
    If CaRx_pH < 7.00 Then OFF

    Here is another idea I tried. Pretty sure this one doesn't work because it never switches back to the OFF state for Min Time to hold it there:
    Set OFF
    If CaRx_pH > 7.00 Then ON
    If CaRx_pH < 7.00 Then OFF
    Min Time 720:00 Then OFF

    Stretch goal once I get this working: Add a Defer statement to keep the alarm from going off during brief pH spikes.

    Any help appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Les

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor Alain B's Avatar
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    How do you run your calcium reactor : all day or only part of it ? There is a much simpler way to get an alarm for an empty CO2 bottle or restricted flow in a calcium reactor .

    Alain

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    Quote Originally Posted by alainb600 View Post
    How do you run your calcium reactor : all day or only part of it ? There is a much simpler way to get an alarm for an empty CO2 bottle or restricted flow in a calcium reactor .

    Alain
    I run it all day and go through about one 20lb. CO2 bottle every 3-4 months. Lots of SPS.

  4. #4
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    I think this program *may* be working. Did a little creative combination of OSC and Min Time. Need to let it run for a day and see what happens.

    Set OFF
    If CaRx_pH > 7.00 Then ON
    OSC 000:00/059:00/001:00 Then ON
    If CaRx_pH < 7.00 Then OFF
    Min Time 720:00 Then OFF

  5. #5
    Frequent Contributor Alain B's Avatar
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    Ok first You need you CO2 doser to be controlled with your apex and an outlet , based on the ph of the calcium reactor . If you CO2 is not controlled by the apex this will not work . Those alarm are based on a few simple fact about a calcium reactor :

    A) an empty bottle will keep the dosing outlet ON all the time . ( as the pH will not go down )
    B) a flow restriction or lack of it will keep the dosing outlet OFF all the time . ( as the pH will not go up keeping the doser staying OFF )

    I personnally run my calcium reactor pH at 6.5 using an aquarium plant aquarium doser , so i can have very tight calcium reactor parameters : it is true that doing that the outlet operate ON and OFF frequently but this kind of doser does not seem to be bother with it . My calcium reactor ph is set and if more Alkalinity is needed all I do is increase the effluent flow .

    1) Record the average time your doser outlet is ON ( an extended time ON mean CO2 running low or empty or leak )
    2) Record the average time your doser outlet is OFF ( an extended time OFF mean flow is restricted or inexistant )
    3) You will need 2 VO Outlet for this and program those VO into your email and alarm outlet .
    4) I use 20 minutes time delay in my case as my outlet ON and OFF very often , for you it could be different : Its a test and trial setup.


    Doser_CO2 ( physical outlet )

    Fallback OFF
    If Ca < 6.50 Then OFF
    If Ca > 6.50 Then ON
    If Outlet Calc_R_Feed = OFF Then OFF
    If Outlet Calc_R_Recir = OFF Then OFF

    Alert_CO2_Lo ( VO outlet )

    Set OFF
    If Outlet Doser_CO2 = ON Then ON
    Defer 020:00 Then ON


    Alert_CR_Flo ( VO outlet )
    Set OFF
    If Outlet Doser_CO2 = OFF Then ON
    Defer 020:00 Then ON


    Program those 2 alert in your email and alarm .

    Alain
    Last edited by Alain B; 06-26-2014 at 17:20. Reason: correction

  6. #6
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    Thanks Alain - that is a great way to do it. My setup is exactly the same as yours. Electronic CO2 dosing regulator and outlet controlled by pH.

    Your program doesn't address my goal of limiting the alert to once or twice per day. I guess I could just turn the virtual outlet to "OFF" until I replace the CO2 bottle, but where's the fun in that? I'd prefer for the system to keep pinging me so I don't forget to go get it refilled.

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor Alain B's Avatar
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    After a lot of testing and trial , i found out that this is the only reliable way to get an alert regarding flow and co2 level . It is based on actual behavior of a calcium reactor . If you want the system to ping you often just revise your email and alarm setting in the network set up page : I have mine set to re-email me at 10 min interval , when i am tired i just turn the VO OFF . Remember you can also set an Alert outlet to notify you in case the calcium reactor pH fall off of parameters :

    Capture.PNG


    Alain

  8. #8
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    This sounds awesome and I understand what is being accomplished here however I do not understand the programming.

    Where did this come from? If Outlet Calc_R_Feed = OFF Then OFF
    If Outlet Calc_R_Recir = OFF Then OFF

    And how do you create VO's in Fusion?
    Alert_CO2_Lo ( VO outlet )

    Set OFF
    If Outlet Doser_CO2 = ON Then ON
    Defer 020:00 Then ON


    Alert_CR_Flo ( VO outlet )
    Set OFF
    If Outlet Doser_CO2 = OFF Then ON
    Defer 020:00 Then ON


  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The feed and circ lines are there to shut down the CO2 if the feed or circulation pumps are ever turned off so you don't get mush.



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  10. #10
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You make virtual outlets here.


    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    The feed and circ lines are there to shut down the CO2 if the feed or circulation pumps are ever turned off so you don't get mush.



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    So both feed and recirc pumps need an outlet in Apex I assume? If so can I plug both in one outlet of a splitter? How about if my feed is off a manifold quick I was planning to do?

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    They dont have to be but it's helpful. Alain did that for easy maintenance purposes as did I when I had a big tank with a reactor. If using a manifold, I would use the return pump outlet state in place of the feed pump as it serves the same purpose.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  13. #13
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    Got it thanks... you have been very helpful

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  14. #14
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    Once I do all the programming I will screenshot and post so you can double check if all is good.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

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