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Thread: Auto RO/DI Setup

  1. #1
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    Auto RO/DI Setup

    My first REAL APEX project will be to setup the RO/DI unit. I have a 150 gal tank for fresh water and I the rodi water to be made automatically.

    My idea for it working is to have a float Sensor at the top of the tank and a float Sensor at the bottom of the tank. When the float sensor at the bottom of the tank turns on the RODI will flush for ?x? min and then it will start to make water until the float sensor at the top closes. I will also run the input through a float valve that will shut off the system via pressure as redundancy. It should be a pretty straight forward process, but I am not sure what equipment (electric Valves/Solenoids) I need.

    Has anyone done this or do you know of a thread I could read where this was done? I did look through the forum, but I didn't see a thread that the on and off of the RODI is automated.

    I am looking for programing ideas and equipment / RO/DI hookup ideas.

    I have a 5 stage Dual Membrane RO/DI Unit with a Booster Pump.

  2. #2
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    Does this look correct?

    The APEX will control the Booster pump and the Solenoid and turn them on/off together by the float sensors.

    If the full float sensor fails a simple float valve will put back pressure on the system and the pressure sensor will shut off the pump and water flow.

    I can also learn how long it takes to make water and setup an email alert if it is one for x amount of time.


  3. #3
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Flow chart looks good. Once you get all your parts, post up your first crack at the programming and I can look through it. Once you have a basic code working, I can walk you through additional failsafes like stuck switch detection and maximum run time lockouts.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  4. #4
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    Ok, sounds AWESOME!!!

    I'm gonna plumb it tonight, build the float valves later in the week then try to program it.

    That should be good for a laugh.

  5. #5
    Frequent Visitor 10b0b's Avatar
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    Be interested to see how you work this out and get it running. As I'm thinking of doing something similar.

    My Auto-RO system currently works with an Arduino board and has separate feed and drain circuits to prime and prep all the stages before it collects RODI water into a large water barrel.

    Its just a bit convoluted and complicated and I'm looking to simplify it a little!

  6. #6
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    I got the Auto RODI running

    I have a high & low float sensor and these open the flow valve and turn on the booster pump.

    I don't know if my code is correct, but this is what I did:

    Fallback OFF
    If ROHigh OPEN Then OFF
    If ROLow CLOSED Then ON

    I did this for both the valve and booster and it seems to work.

    I did thus with trial and error. I had a set statement and it would not work. I thought I could tell the booster to turn on when the ROValve opened, but I could not figure it out.

    I have A LOT TO LEARN!!!

  7. #7
    Master Control Freak aquamanic's Avatar
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    You should have a Set statement at the beginning to establish a default state for the outlet.

    What if ROHigh is CLOSED but ROLow is OPEN (wire got yanked out)? What state will the outlet be in?

    ** just realized I misunderstood what the OP was trying to accomplish. This is for a RO reservoir not for an ATO top-off. So as zombie points out in a couple of posts, what I suggest is not correct. I have another post that describes this process in detail.

    http://forum.neptunesystems.com/show...ll=1#post16233
    Al

    I do not work for Neptune. Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums!
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    Comprehensive Reference Manual can be found here.

  8. #8
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    I tried that but I could not get it to function properly. I want the default to be OFF so I added Set OFF under the fallback. With this only the high switch functioned. Closed = On, Open = Off. The low switch position was irrelevant.

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aquamanic View Post
    You should have a Set statement at the beginning to establish a default state for the outlet.

    What if ROHigh is CLOSED but ROLow is OPEN (wire got yanked out)? What state will the outlet be in?
    He wont get hysteresis that way. The default state has to be acheived by setting the outlet to either on or off and then to auto just like a latch lockout. A max runtime or stuck switch detection would help with the scenario you mentioned, but Im not sure how long it takes to fill or consume. Could require multiple defer stacks to add those features.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

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    Adding conditions based on past behavior is something I want to do, but I do not know how long it will take to fill up and would like to have multiple test cases to determine a proper max runtime. Once I allow it to fill Is it possible to view that data or do I need to time it?

    How would you guys program it right now in what I call my testing/prototype phase?

  11. #11
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You can check it real easy in the original dashboard. That will give you graphs in real time of any of your outlets.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  12. #12
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    If I need to have a SET statement for my high low switches, how would you program it?

    Fallback OFF

    Set OFF

    If ROHigh OPEN Then OFF

    If ROLow CLOSED Then ON

  13. #13
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Leave the set statement out. You will not get it to work with a set statement. You do have the order backwards above though. fallback, then low on, then high off.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Leave the set statement out. You will not get it to work with a set statement. You do have the order backwards above though. fallback, then low on, then high off.
    The code you said was exactly what I thought/tried 1st time. It seemed with that code only the high valve controlled the switch. I didn't understand that. I may have done something wrong so I will try it again.

    I'm not sure why there is no need for a SET statement.

  15. #15
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You dont want the set statement for the same reason that you dont use a set statement for a chiller or heater. Since you want it to turn on when the water level hits the bottom and keep pumping until it hits the top you have to write the code so that it first will turn on if low switch is closed, then turn off if high switch opens, then turn off for any other failsafes.

    This is what you want even though the way you originally had it still works, this ordering prevents the situation of your ro unit staying stuck on if the low switch sticks closed.


    Fallback OFF
    If ROLow CLOSED Then ON
    If ROHigh OPEN Then OFF

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  16. #16
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    I am going to do it again when I get home on Sunday. That is what makes sense to me so I must have done something wrong and didn't look close because it was my 1st attempt and though it was wrong.

  17. #17
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    The change in order doesnt effect the function when switches are operating normally, its only in a failure mode that it makes a difference. Rule of thumb for the vast majority of programming is that the more important a line is, the closer to the end it should be. Failsafe off statements should always be last.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  18. #18
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    Thanks for the advice. I'll let you know my results.

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    I had some serious setbacks, but I am back on track and my tank is cycling.

    Thank you guys for your help getting my RO working. I just purchased another valve that I want to use to Auto flush my RO Membranes. I assume I would program the flush outlet based on the outlet based on the outlet that turns the system on?


    My plan is to let it flush for 1.5 min at the start (I think I can handle that) and I would like to let it flush 1.5 min when it is done (Might be able to handle that too). However, the other thing I want to do is flush the system 15 sec every hour the system is running. This I have no idea how to do?

  20. #20
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    This is what you need. The flush at the last min and a half may not be possible for what you need since I know at least on my RO unit, it can only flush while the RO output is open. That part could only be accomplished if you want it to run an extra 1.5 min after the switch opens. The code below will do the rest though.

    FlushTime
    Set OFF
    If Outlet RO = ON Then ON
    Defer 001:30 Then ON

    FlushOSC
    OSC 000:30/000:15/059:45 Then ON
    If Outlet FlushTime = OFF Then OFF

    Flush
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Outlet RO = ON Then ON
    If Outlet FlushTime = ON Then OFF
    If Outlet FlushOSC = ON Then ON

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  21. #21
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    Zombie, Am I to make two virtual outlets "FlushTime" and "FlushOSC" This seems to be what you are indicating.

    Then use the Flush code is for the actual flush valve?

    I don't think there will be an issue with the system flushing when it is off because the flush valve is before the shutoff valve.

  22. #22
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The-Russ View Post
    Zombie, Am I to make two virtual outlets "FlushTime" and "FlushOSC" This seems to be what you are indicating.

    Then use the Flush code is for the actual flush valve?
    Yes.

    Do you have a picture of how the flush solenoid is set up? Is it a bypass restrictor setup or a drain setup?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Do you have a picture of how the flush solenoid is set up? Is it a bypass restrictor setup or a drain setup?
    Zombie, You are correct. It will not "Flush" without the system turned on. As far as a picture is concerned in the illustration above, from stage 5 there is also my waste. I put a "Y" in the waste line side 1 has the flow restrictor and side 2 has a mechanical ON/OFF Solenoid. I did not get one of the "AutoFlush" solenoids. I would rather be in control. After all, if you own an APEX you should be a control freak.


    Since the system has to be running I will take the code above and "OUTLET RO" will be my RO Valve that turns on the system.

    I am going to program/test this now.

  24. #24
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    I added the programing as indicated an the flush valve never shut off. Not sure what the deal was.

  25. #25
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Please copy paste the code directly from the advanced programming tab. Something may have gotten missed. Also, what outlet is the solenoid plugged into? There may not be enough load for it to turn off on a triac outlet.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

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