DIY Apex feeders

[Windy]

I have an Apex controller, but the cost of the apex feeder seems very high. I have frag tanks, two pair of clownfish rearing tanks, a sump and 135 gal tank. I use 4 feeders when I am gone. The reason for this thread is that I have hacked a Eheim feeder to work with the apex. The Eheim is a battery operated programmable feeder that costs about $30. I am installing RJ12 plugs in the battery bay. This gives me 4 connectors. Two wires go to the battery terminals, and two go to a switch on top of the feeder. This switch is for manual feeding. I am waiting on a power supply to replace the batteries, and an APEX breakout box. When they arrive I will have feeders that connect to the breakout box via phone cables and plugs. The apex can rotate the feeder via the internal switches. I will post pictures when I get everything together. I have already tested one feeder.

[aquamanic]

There's a thread here someplace where someone did a similar mod to that Eheim feeder. He replaced the battery with connectors for a 6v DC connection then used a 6v transformer on an outlet to power the feeder. Search a little in the DIY forum and you should find it.

[Windy]

Thanks, but the feeder I am modding is 3 volts. Also this mod will be controlled by the controller internal switches, not an outlet.

[Windy]

I searched or the thread but was unable to find it.

[RussM]

"The apex can rotate the feeder via the internal switches."

What internal switches?

[aquamanic]

Sorry, it was on the 'other' Neptune forum...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2182290

But it looks like the link he posted that had the pictures is busted.

[Windy]

RUSSM,

There are 6 internal switches in the Apex controller. They can be used to sense an open or closed switch. Also
" The contacts can only have 0 – 5V of power – power beyond that will damage the base unit. "(From the manual)

I intend to connect 3 volts across them to activate the feeder. If this method is not a good idea then, I will go with a relay to activate the feeders. I have several extra outlets.

Will the internal switches work in that manner?

[RussM]

The switch inputs should not be used to attempt to power anything. Nothing should ever be connected to them except dry-contact switches.

[Windy]

The switch inputs should not be used to attempt to power anything. Nothing should ever be connected to them except dry-contact switches.

Thanks for making that clear. The manual isn't all that clear. I wonder why the 1-5 volt limit then?

[dentnshell]

When I did the eheim mod I used the version that left the batteries in the feeder. I used a 3 volt transformer plugged into the apex. The 3 volt output I soldered onto the motor wires of the feeder. If the motor was triggered even for one second, the electronics in the feeder continued to operate the motor under battery power until one revolution was completed. I used the OSC command to operate the eheim feeder for about 3/4 of a revolution. This allowed the battery to supply the last 1/4 turn. The battery would last for months! Could have gotten rid of batteries by using another 3volt supply, to keep the unit powered instead of batteries. By doing two supplies or battery with a supply you don't have to be EXTREMELY precise in the the timing of the apex output.

The feeder took a swim about the same time the AFS was released. As a result I now have a AFS.

[Windy]

My plan is to have a 3volt power supply to replace the batteries in four feeders. There is a manual switch on top of each feeder. By wiring leads to that switch, anytime the leads are connected, the motor rotates. So I will install a 120 volt relay that will connect the switch leads to rotate the feeder. I will control the relay with an outlet. I can buy an Eheim feeder for about $25.00 and I already have 4.

[dentnshell]

Sounds like that will work just fine. feed button simply allows the 3 volts to reach the motor. After that, the 3 volts from the battery or the power supply in your case, takes over.
It is possible that a 3 volt transformer may be cheaper than a relay setup. I happened to have a couple laying around. The both will achieve the same thing (allowing 3 volts to reach the motor)

So since you are using the switch leads what is your programming??? I don't recall being able to activate the breakout box using programming, I thought they were only inputs.
Or are you using the VDM?
I figured at about $20 per EB8 outlet, that unless you have extra outlets, the cost of an eheim modded feeder was over $50 (Still cheaper than an AFS) But since I was maxed out on outlets I wanted to use the AFS was cheaper for me than purchasing another EB8.

I think it is a very worthwhile project. And while I like my AFS, I liked the silence of the eheim.

Edit:
I read wrong, I see you are using an outlet.

[dentnshell]

I used something like this
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3V-2A-AC-DC-...item2c646e9c91

soldered to the motor leads.
Again once the motor moved just a little the other power source took over.

There are cheaper ones on ebay but the orientation of the plug would potentially cover up another outlet.
I am curious as to what relays you are using. When I built my DIY doser I considered the use of relays to keep from purchasing separate power supplies for my pumps. Much like you are doing with this mod. 1 power supply for 4 feeders.

[cypherljk]

Listening...

[Windy]

My system uses a 1/3 hp external circulation pump to service 6 tanks. I will not put my external pump on a GFCI. It has its own circuit so if a gfci should dump, my whole system doesn't die. This is not unsafe since it is an external pump and will not see water. But to have the apex control the pump, I bought a 120 volt relay that comes off of an apex outlet. I can turn it on and off with the apex for feeding or other uses.

[Windy]

I have been waiting for parts but finally have them. Here is a picture of the feeder prior to modification, and you can buy them for about $28.00 online.



This is the power supply for the feeders set a 3 volts. The feeders come with batteries, but when I leave home I want to be sure they will work so I put in new batteries. Also, if you don't leave the feeders powered up they lose their programming. So I want to give them a stable power source.



If you look at the picture of the feeder you will see a long button on the back that manually controls the feeder. I have soldered wires to the bottom of the switch posts. I have also soldered wires to the battery terminals.

[IMG]
http://i1302.photobucket.com/albums/ag121/craig_anderson3/Apexfeeder005_zpsa9c5004b.jpg[/IMG]





When I complete the control box, I will post the finished system.

[cypherljk]

Windy any chance for a link to that power supply?

[Windy]

I will post my source this afternoon.

- - - Updated - - -

Well I have the control box about done, but I am waiting on 2, 120 volt relays to rotate the feeders. I will have 2 feeder circuits and will utilize two apex outlets to run them. This allows for different feeding on different tanks. The feeder has an RJ11 socket installed in it. Two wires provide 3 volt power and 2 are used for the rotation switch. This particular feeder was purchased in 1995 and would not accept programming but did turn on. I have several newer models and I can't see an difference in 19 years. By putting sockets in the feeders they can easily be removed but you don't have to fish out the cords. I have wire bundles in some places and I don't want to re-string a feeder wire every time I remove one.



Here is the control box. The top 2 outlets will run on the same program and the bottom two will on another.





By the way for you who do things like this. I had a hard time finding the right power supply, so I bought the one pictured earlier I the post. Its inexpensive and adjustable from 1.5 volts to 12 volts in steps of 1.5 volts. And if you wire something backward, there is a polarity switch and a 120-240 volt selector on the back. Finally it has about every plug type I have ever seen to help you connect it.

[Windy]

Windy any chance for a link to that power supply?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Windy]

I finally got the relays and installed them in the control box. The system now tests out and I need to program the two APEX outlets to turn on the feeders. The relays only need to close for a second or two and the feeder will rotate until it comes back to the starting position.
The two top plugs run feed #1 and the two bottom plugs run feed #2. This is so that I can feed different tanks. Right now I plan on the upper circuit feeding twice a day with two rotations for each feed. The lower circuit will feed once a day with two rotations. Multiple rotations make for more accurate feeding in my experience.

So if anybody wants to help me program an outlet to turn on and off in less than 15 seconds, I would appreciate the help.

Here is a picture of the power supply, control box, and two feeders that have been modified.

[Windy]

By the way, the newer feeders have their control board sealed in plastic. It is very difficult to get a good joint, so I drilled under the feet of the switch, to place the jumpers.

As for programing, here is what I intend:

To double feed at 8:00 am and 5:00 pm

OSC 480:00/000:10/540:00 Then ON
If Outlet [Lights] = ON Then OFF

Single feed at 9:00 am,

OSC 540:00/000:10/900:00

But what I really need is to rotate the feeder twice at each feeding. I am not sure how to do this from a programming standpoint, but manually, you have to activate the feeder and wait until it stops feeding and then activate it again. The wait between can be 1-2 minutes.

[zombie]

If you want 2 rotations, just do this. I am assuming one rotation every 2 minutes to make it simpler and a double feed at 8 am, single feed at 9 am, and double feed at 5pm

FeedTime
Set OFF
If Time 08:00 to 08:03 Then ON
If Time 09:00 to 09:01 Then ON
If Time 17:00 to 17:03 Then ON

Feeder Outlet
OSC 000:00/000:10/001:50 Then ON
If Outlet FeedTime = OFF Then OFF




You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Windy]

I have 2 outlets to program. One is for two feedings/day with two rotations. The other is for one feeding per day with two rotations.

The way these feeders work is to basically push a switch on the feeder via a set of jumpers. The outlet trips a simple relay that closes the jumpers. This activates the motor and it completes a rotation in about 10 secs. The idea is to push the button and release prior to the next rotation, or in less than 10 sec. Every "push" gives one rotation. So lets say at 8:00 am I want to "push" the button for 5 sec, wait a minute and push it again for five sec. Then repeat for the afternoon feeding. My example above is for a button push of 10 sec. but I have since timed the feeders and they rotate in just under 10 sec. so the duration must be about 5 sec.

Now the way I read your example you are trying to feed three times per day on one outlet. Even so I don't understand the logic or the difference between FeedTime and Feeder Outlet. Could you explain further?

[zombie]

FeedTime is a virtual outlet. You will need one for each of your feeders. All this outlet does is allow the rotations to occur in the feeder outlet, which allows any "push" to occur when the outlet is on. Since the osc statement repeats every 2 minutes, every 2 minutes that the virtual outlet is on allows for 1 rotation. Ex 1 rotation is XX:00 to XX:01, 2 rotations is XX:00 to XX:03, 3 rotations is XX:00 to XX:05...where XX os the time you want the feed to happen.

If you need the "push" to be 5 seconds instead of 10, then just change the osc in the feeder outlet to OSC 000:00/000:05/001:55 Then ON.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Windy]

I am not able to understand what you mean. THe logic used for lights is exactly what I need, but it does not define time in seconds. So instead of a straight forward program, we must create virtual outlets? I am lost.

Outlet 08:00:00 on
Outlet 08:00:05 off

Outlet 08:02:00 on
Outlet 08:02:05 off

Outlet 17:00:00 on
Outlet 17:00:05 off

Outlet 17:02:00 on
Outlet 17:02:05 off

Seems simple to me. So to accomplish this what do I need to read, or review. I have programmed in Fortran, basic and several other languages, but this logic is not something I understand.