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Thread: Colour Range on Radions

  1. #1
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    Colour Range on Radions

    Am trying to figure a lighting sequence that simulates a reef including sunset into moonlight - against actual kelvin temps. Could you have a look and give advice please?

    NumbersScreenSnapz001.png

  2. #2
    Frequent Visitor BertL's Avatar
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    Nice job. A lot of work went into that. A few thoughts...

    1. It looks like you've used Neptune's assumptions for colors against each spectrum as a starting point. Be aware that both EcoTech and Neptune do not distinguish between types of Radions in those assumptions, as different physical Radions have different LEDs that come on with the 6 channels, e.g. My Pro 3Gs have Yellow LEDs that come on with Red, and Indigo that come on with UV. I therefore don't believe there is really "one set of color channel defaults" or "one size that fits all" that truly represents all Radion models if we want to get super technical. I'm surprised even the EcoTech tools don't distinguish between them, especially when they ask what specific model type you have. Also, EcoTech and Neptune have (or at least had) different color channel intensities in some of those default spectrums, e.g. look at 5K White, 7K, 10K Blues, 14K/18K/20K White/Green/Red in my spreadsheet below. Does that really make a significant difference? I don't know. I only found the difference going through EcoTech tools to see what their colors were, and then doing the same with the Fusion Wizard, that the difference exists. A summary of what I found is below if it's useful to you. As you've done, you'll have to extrapolate to what other spectrums may be from the "standard 7".
    2. I'm all for doing things that are natural, but I'm not so sure I could both live with viewing some of the coloration that entails for too long, and I know my tank could not take the total photoperiod your plan suggests without being totally overrun with algae.
    3. There is also some thought (right or wrong, again, I don't know) that suggest too much Red (or even Green) Channel can cause more nuisance algae -- I don't have an opinion on that, only summarizing some of the confusing and anecdotal stuff I've read on the net.
    4. You may want to consider adding an "overall intensity" column to your planning. I continue to play with that more than most anything else to simulate acclimation modes using the Apex/WXM with my Radions. I also maintain a "starting" and "ending" intensity for each of the photoperiod in my planning spreadsheet -- those three columns combined with color channel info are what you need to then set up the profiles for each of your photoperiods.
    5. You may want to dial down UV significantly at the outset. I unintentionally started to bleach a couple of my corals I suspect because of the 100% UV defaults. In my experience, UV has to be dialed up almost independent of overall spectrum intensity especially as that approaches higher numbers.
    6. Good luck with your project. I'm going to stare at your work a little more and see if there is something there I can steal for my own setup! THANKS!


    Color Channel Spectrum Assumptions - Radion Pro 3G
    Screen Shot 2014-10-18 at 5.35.33 AM.png
    Last edited by BertL; 10-18-2014 at 04:58. Reason: spelling. spelling. spelling.
    Bert

  3. #3
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    Thanks so much for all this BertL!!

    Bit of background.

    I currently am awaiting delivery of tank. I know, i know - but I’m impatient and wanted to get ahead with cracking the programming… ;-)

    Am currently trying to go for more subtle lighting profiles, that i think replicate a reef - that are specified to Rad Pro - I am going to use 2x Rad Pro Gen 3s - so guess need to turn the intensities down (especially in acclimatisation) as you suggest. Tried to use the default colours of the specified kelvin mixes - but equally have read the red/green/UV are all too much realistically - and don;t want those algae blooms… and not sure why the hydra lets you access the yellow / violet direct and radio doesn’t - hey ho.

    So whats your suggestion - EcoTech vs Neptune numbers for the basis - does one “look” nicer? On your graph you maybe need to have a third column such as Bert’s which is your manual adjustment - such as red /UV dialled back which sits between algae control, coral bleaching & optimum viewing. That I would be keen to see too!

    I started with “what is daylight” in kelvin at different times of day, tried to overlay that with the Ecotech profiles on here - and as you say interpolate some of the other variants that are specified as kelvin. Note: when people discuss “daylight” online, e.g. photography, etc - they are talking a base of 5k natural daylight, not daylight on a reef! So some of this is trial and error. ;-/

    Point taken on ramps and intensities = now added. Though to be fair, its all guesswork presently.

    As for the plan;


    • Want to have a dawn moving into a more of intense red for sunrise and sunset (without the algae!).
    • Want a blue evening twilight (though not sure how to make the colours fluoresce assuming this is UV right?
    • Want a guaranteed lightning strike on sun lunch plus a couple of times in middle of night over and above the random weather variants. (because Storms happen at night) - Assuming a new virtual outlet is required for this?
    • The storms i want to turn on a nutrient export program on powerhead (MP40).
    • Going to create an ‘actual’ rain effect (spare pump to spray bar) when random storms or guaranteed lightning happen.


    I have shown one LED as a timeline (left). Another (right) which is trying to replicate RussM’s (genius!) versions of season/weather *MASSIVE THANKS!!* Note: I did change / swap a couple of names for own clarity. I only have left here presently to help me figure seasonal orders out…

    For sake of programming, lets assume sunrise is at 7am and sunset is at 7pm… knowing in reality this is a sliding scale. So with the slide in mind, lets assume “sunshine” in afternoon is the one that is going to lengthen / shorten as all others are fixed points of time after sunrise / before sunset.

    Am sure have loads wrong. Not sure how to create the true blue / red effects for a start, the ramp times and how they overlap I am not fully sure about - let alone the order for seasonal times despite reading the reference manual in depth. (I’ve only had the Apex a week!!)

    Oh, and I am going to stick with default seasonal times - as in UK our light schedule doesn't exactly follow a reef… (wishful thinking) ;-)

    Thanks in advance!!

    NumbersScreenSnapz003.png






  4. #4
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    Programming so far (red are for changes from RussM’s Variant 3):

    wanted to say thanks to RussM, Zombie and Aquamanic too... as was their notes on various threads that have helped me get this far!! ;-)

    PROFILES

    [ Dawn ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 50
    Blue intensity: 0
    Royal Blue intensity: 0
    Green intensity: 50
    Red intensity: 50
    UV intensity: 0
    Start overall intensity: 0
    End overall intensity: 5
    Ramp Time: 60

    [ Sunrise ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 100
    Blue intensity: 0
    Royal Blue intensity: 0
    Green intensity: 100
    Red intensity: 100
    UV intensity: 10
    Start overall intensity: 5
    End overall intensity: 10
    Ramp Time: 60

    [ Morning ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 100
    Blue intensity: 100
    Royal Blue intensity: 100
    Green intensity: 100
    Red intensity: 100
    UV intensity: 100
    Start overall intensity: 10
    End overall intensity: 20
    Ramp Time: 60

    [ Daylight ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 45
    Blue intensity: 100
    Royal Blue intensity: 100
    Green intensity: 45
    Red intensity: 45
    UV intensity: 100
    Start overall intensity: 20
    End overall intensity: 30
    Ramp Time: 30

    [ Midday ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 37
    Blue intensity: 100
    Royal Blue intensity: 100
    Green intensity: 17
    Red intensity: 37
    UV intensity: 100
    Start overall intensity: 30
    End overall intensity: 40
    Ramp Time: 30

    [ Sunshine ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 45
    Blue intensity: 100
    Royal Blue intensity: 100
    Green intensity: 45
    Red intensity: 45
    UV intensity: 100
    Start overall intensity: 40
    End overall intensity: 30
    Ramp Time: 30

    [ Afternoon ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 75
    Blue intensity: 100
    Royal Blue intensity: 100
    Green intensity: 75
    Red intensity: 75
    UV intensity: 100
    Start overall intensity: 30
    End overall intensity: 40
    Ramp Time: 30

    [ Evening ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 100
    Blue intensity: 30
    Royal Blue intensity: 30
    Green intensity: 100
    Red intensity: 100
    UV intensity: 30
    Start overall intensity: 40
    End overall intensity: 20
    Ramp Time: 30

    [ Sunset ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 30
    Blue intensity: 0
    Royal Blue intensity: 0
    Green intensity: 50
    Red intensity: 100
    UV intensity: 20
    Start overall intensity: 20
    End overall intensity: 30
    Ramp Time: 60

    [ Twilight ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 10
    Blue intensity: 50
    Royal Blue intensity: 100
    Green intensity: 0
    Red intensity: 0
    UV intensity: 10
    Start overall intensity: 30
    End overall intensity: 10
    Ramp Time: 60

    [ Moonlight ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 10
    Blue intensity: 20
    Royal Blue intensity: 30
    Green intensity: 0
    Red intensity: 0
    UV intensity: 0
    Start overall intensity: 10
    End overall intensity: 10
    Ramp Time: 1

    [ Sunlight ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 100
    Blue intensity: 17
    Royal Blue intensity: 17
    Green intensity: 100
    Red intensity: 100
    UV intensity: 17
    Start overall intensity: 40
    End overall intensity: 40
    Ramp Time: 1

    [ Overcast ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 100
    Blue intensity: 20
    Royal Blue intensity: 20
    Green intensity: 100
    Red intensity: 100
    UV intensity: 20
    Start overall intensity: 30
    End overall intensity: 10
    Ramp Time: 5

    [ Shade ]
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 100
    Blue intensity: 20
    Royal Blue intensity: 20
    Green intensity: 100
    Red intensity: 100
    UV intensity: 20
    Start overall intensity: 10
    End overall intensity: 30
    Ramp Time: 5

    [ Stormy ]
    Type: Weather
    Light Maximum Intensity: 40
    Cloudy Light Intensity: 25
    Cloud Duration: 7
    Cloudy Time: 75
    Probability of Lightning: 65
    Lightning Intensity: 100

    [ Cloudy ]
    Type: Weather
    Light Maximum Intensity: 40
    Cloudy Light Intensity: 25
    Cloud Duration: 7
    Cloudy Time: 75
    Probability of Lightning: 0
    Lightning Intensity: 0

    [ Lightning ]
    Type: Weather
    Light Maximum Intensity: 60
    Cloudy Light Intensity: 20
    Cloud Duration: 5
    Cloudy Time: 50
    Probability of Lightning: 100
    Lightning Intensity: 100


  5. #5
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    PROGRAM


    [ LunarCycle ] ( a virtual outlet )
    Set OFF
    If Moon 000/000 Then ON

    [ PreWeather ] ( a virtual outlet )
    OSC 000:00/005:10/637:00 Then ON
    If Time 16:00 to 12:59 Then OFF

    [ Storms ] ( a virtual outlet )
    Set OFF
    If Outlet PreWeather = ON Then ON
    If DoW S-T-T-S Then OFF
    Min Time 037:10 Then ON
    Defer 5:00 Then ON

    [ Clouds ] ( a virtual outlet )
    Set OFF
    If Outlet PreWeather = ON Then ON
    If DoW -M-W-F- Then OFF
    Min Time 037:10 Then ON
    Defer 5:00 Then ON

    [ LightStrike ] ( virtual)
    Set OFF
    If Time 13:00 to 13:15 Then ON
    If DoW -MTWTFS Then OFF
    If Time 02:00 to 02:10 Then ON
    If DoW SMT-TF- Then OFF

    [ PostWeather ] ( a virtual outlet )
    Set OFF
    If Outlet Clouds = ON Then ON
    If Outlet Storms = ON Then ON
    Min Time 005:00 Then ON
    Defer 37:00 Then ON

    [ LightSwitch ] ( virtual - verride for no-effect lights on)
    Set OFF

    [ LightShow ] (virtual - override for a lightning demo)
    Set OFF

    [ LED_Left ] ( WXM outlet for Rad Pro fixture )
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Time 06:00 to 06:59 Then Dawn
    If Time 07:00 to 07:59 Then Sunrise
    If Time 08:00 to 09:59 Then Morning
    If Time 10:00 to 11:59 Then Daylight
    If Time 12:00 to 12:59 Then Midday
    If Time 13:00 to 13:59 Then Sunshine
    If Time 15:00 to 17:59 Then Afternoon
    If Time 18:00 to 18:59 Then Evening
    If Time 19:00 to 19:59 Then Sunset
    If Time 20:00 to 21:59 Then Twilight
    If Time 22:00 to 23:59 Then Moonlight
    If Outlet LightStrike = ON Then Storm
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightSwitch = ON Then Sunlight
    If Temp > 27.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

    [ LED_Right ] ( WXM outlet for Rad Pro fixture )
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Outlet LunarCycle = ON Then Moonlight
    If Sun -060/-360 Then Dawn
    If Sun 360/060 Then Twilight
    If Sun 000/-360 Then Sunrise
    If Sun 360/000 Then Sunset
    If Sun 120/-360 Then Morning
    If Sun 360/-180 Then Evening
    If Sun 180/-360 Then Daylight
    If Sun 360/-240 Then Afternoon
    If Sun 300/-300 Then Sunshine
    If Sun 240/-060 Then Midday
    If Outlet PreWeather = ON Then Overcast
    If Outlet Clouds = ON Then Cloudy
    If Outlet Storms = ON Then Stormy
    If Outlet PostWeather = ON Then Shade
    If Outlet LightStrike = ON Then Storm
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightSwitch = ON Then Sunlight

    [ StormPump ] (EB outlet for a pump to spraybar)
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Outlet Storms = ON Then ON
    If Outlet LightStrike = ON Then ON
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then ON
    If FeedD 000 Then OFF

    [ Powerhead ] (MP40 variable…with line for storms)
    Fallback ON
    Set Lagoon
    If Time 08:00 to 11:00 Then ReefCrest
    If Time 12:00 to 14:00 Then TidalSwell
    If Time 15:00 to 20:00 Then ReefCrest
    If Time 22:00 to 06:00 Then Night
    If Outlet Storms = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet LightStrike = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Nutrient
    If FeedA 000 Then Feed
    If FeedD 001 Then Slow
    If Outlet FeedNutrient = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet FeedSlow = ON Then Slow
    If Outlet FeedOff = ON Then OFF

    The next thing - will be to figure out how to link the actual MP40 times to coincide with the lights on seasonal / weather… ;-)

    Am guessing:

    [ Powerhead_Season ] (MP40 variable settings)
    Fallback ON
    Set Lagoon
    If Outlet LunarCycle = ON Then Lagoon
    If Sun -060/-360 Then Night
    If Sun 000/-360 Then Reefcrest
    If Sun 240/-360 Then TidalSwell
    If Sun 360/-240 Then Reefcrest
    If Outlet Storms = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet LightStrike = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Nutrient
    If FeedA 000 Then Feed
    If FeedD 001 Then Slow
    If Outlet FeedNutrient = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet FeedSlow = ON Then Slow
    If Outlet FeedOff = ON Then OFF

  6. #6
    Frequent Visitor BertL's Avatar
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    Yup, I did the same thing planning in advance of my installation. I had my Apex and Radions 3 months ahead of installation, so it all sat around my desk and I played with programming, creating backup scenarios, testing things and such while I waited (!) on my cabinet guy to do his thing... Anyway, lighting is the #1 biggest thing I've tweaked and changed over time, and still am... To a couple of your questions/points:

    I elected to go with EcoTech numbers. I have no scientific basis for that, but figure the mfgr of the lights themselves probably have a reason for using the numbers they do in their EcoSmart and other tools as defaults.

    Some people go with the whole season table thing, and that's wonderful. I had it in place originally as well. After a few weeks though, I ripped most of that out and made things simpler for me to be able to modify key parameters, and as you say, shift the "tank day" one way or the other, or change photoperiod duration... e.g. my prime photoperiod does not begin until after 11AM and goes to 8PM, placing prime lighting that I like the best (and my corals seem to like the most) at the times I'm likely more around my tank. It literally sits to one side of my TV, so I look at it constantly while I'm reading or whatever from my easy chair and going back-and-forth to the kitchen. Once you get your tank set up, I bet you'll see why I also thought having the lighting look and act as close to reality was a good thing during planning -- but not a good thing at least for me, as my tank started to mature, I looked at colors that were too unnatural for my eye, I went through new tank syndrome, fought off diatoms and GHA, and start putting corals and fish in -- trying to decide if the colors looked realistic to me to not... Fortunately with the Apex, it's all just a matter of programming, and with VOs, I've tried to make it as easy as I can to tweak colors and durations without having to remember a zillion places where other folks have "If Time" and various "If Sun with offsets" they have to keep coordinated across multiple outlets every time they change their mind. :-) I built a spreadsheet that calculates a few timing things, tweak that, it provides input to what I need to change in a handful of VOs and Profiles, and I'm done in a few minutes without worry I've messed something up somewhere.

    If it's helpful, you can find all my programming on Reeftronics, also as BertL. Beware that I'm having some GHA challenges at the moment, so have reduced my total photoperiod and more intense spectrum durations quite bit. What I have with lighting won't last (hopefully) for the long haul. If you look at my programming, here's how you sorta decode what I've done:
    • The spreadsheet below matches programming on Reeftronics today. Note with my intensities, my tank is 54"Lx30"Wx24"D and I have wide-angle TIRs installed. If you're going to use the wide-angle TIRs, they are VERY different than the standard Radion lenses in more ways than one. Lots of stuff on all that, PAR measurements I made, and how I tweaked my aquascape design during planning to have enough light for a few well-placed Acros and such over in a post I did on RC HERE. Note UV continues to be dialed-back big time. I'm not going to kill another coral because of those over-assertive defaults.
    • You'll find I made VOs that represent timeslots across the day: Dawn, Sunrise, Morning, Daylight, Evening, Sunset, Night. Dawn are some very low intensity lights that come on still based upon season table, but you'll see I override it for times of year when the sun rises too early/late for my needs (I tend to do tank maintenance in the mornings, so this generally has enough light for me to work without causing algae problems). Night starts when Sunset end and others VOs are not operating. Basically, I use my spreadsheet to tweak start times, it recalcs, and I then simply go into those outlet programs, change times, then tweak the similarly named profiles for spectrum/intensity/ramp and I'm done.
    • I have an LSM (LED-MOON) for moonlighting -- you'll see that kicks in in conjunction with the TOD VOs above, but also has a little bit of variability to it, just for the heck of it.
    • I then have a similar concept to what I did with lighting, with 4 tidal VOs, so I can adjust their times as I like, and keep them aligned with lighting to the degree I desire. Programming for pumps goes off based on when the VOs are on or off, so like with my lighting, I can change times one place and everything across my Apex changes as need be.
    • I have a variable set of stirring actions (I call it "Stormy Seas") that happen roughly 3 times during the non-night times each day. The logic is all based off what Russ provided in his super terrific sticky on lighting examples. I link logic of the Stormy Seas so when it occurs, if during Morning/Daylight/Evening lighting cycles, I kick off weather effects -- some days only clouds, others a bit of lightning*. That tie-in to those particular lighting cycles is so coloration of the weather effects is close to the same spectrum -- looked horrible otherwise. (* Beware of lightning probability. I'm convinced there is either a bug in the Apex, WXM, and/or Radions, as even if lightning is set to 1% probability, it kicks off far more than that every single time -- just have not gotten around to making it a priority to document and discuss in another thread more thoroughly.)
    • There is a bunch of other stuff there too... Several VOs I can trigger to set lighting to the spectrum I like best to show it off at any time of day; another that does the same thing but stops pumps so I can take a photo, and others... PM or post here if you have a question.


    Have fun.

    Screen Shot 2014-10-18 at 9.04.52 AM.png
    Bert

  7. #7
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    Lots to take in there Bert. Thanks for all this.

    1. Cabinet makers. Hmmmm. Pass! ;-)
    2. i have a 3' tank with 2 rad pros. You think wide angle vs narrow beam would still be necessary on mine?
    3. I think i really should go and pick up the lights and pump so i can have a play for sure, that makes sense then trying to do all virtually. I just figured i wouldn't really see the true effects anyway until i had water in tank and you were viewing from side?
    4. Yes i can see the logic now in your virtual switches for lighting. That's certainly given me food for thought! ;-) So basically I just add all the lines in LED section to point to individual VO's that you set time in there. Need to think of pros / cons here and try unpack your code a little bit more.
    5. The lightning thing is a concern. Hmmm. At the moment its a gimmick. Though i can see sense if i can trigger stirring actions up. and anyway, gimmicks are the cool effect of showing off to friends. :-)
    6. Your photo idea is awesome! Love that. Though having anything to photograph seems a long way off at the mo... ;-)
    7. By the way, you seen this PAR calculator...? Might help...

    cheers
    D

  8. #8
    Frequent Visitor BertL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Donaldson View Post
    Lots to take in there Bert. Thanks for all this.

    1. Cabinet makers. Hmmmm. Pass! ;-)
    2. i have a 3' tank with 2 rad pros. You think wide angle vs narrow beam would still be necessary on mine?
    3. I think i really should go and pick up the lights and pump so i can have a play for sure, that makes sense then trying to do all virtually. I just figured i wouldn't really see the true effects anyway until i had water in tank and you were viewing from side?
    4. Yes i can see the logic now in your virtual switches for lighting. That's certainly given me food for thought! ;-) So basically I just add all the lines in LED section to point to individual VO's that you set time in there. Need to think of pros / cons here and try unpack your code a little bit more.
    5. The lightning thing is a concern. Hmmm. At the moment its a gimmick. Though i can see sense if i can trigger stirring actions up. and anyway, gimmicks are the cool effect of showing off to friends. :-)
    6. Your photo idea is awesome! Love that. Though having anything to photograph seems a long way off at the mo... ;-)
    7. By the way, you seen this PAR calculator...? Might help...

    cheers
    D
    2 -- You'll be fine with normal lenses on a 3' long tank. No problem. Just BE SURE to dial your overall intensity way, way down to begin with or you'll fry everything.
    3 -- I'd suggest having the Apex ahead of time is a good thing. No real need for the pumps as you won't really understand/appreciate what's going on with them until you get them in your tank with aquascape AND sand. Then you'll get to have fun trying to tweak flow so your sand bed does not go everywhere, etc.. Radions OTOH are another story. The outlets won't be added to your Apex until you pair them with the WXM, so you can't really put that part of your programming in place -- everything else, yes. ...but, I only broke my Radions out of their boxes for a few minutes, a few times, before the tank was put in place. As you suspected, you can't tell much of anything until you get them over the real tank.
    4 -- Yup, right.
    5 -- Yes, a big fat gimmick that your friends will like more than you do after a short time. Fish ignore the light changes, and visually it can be distracting, so I've backed way off on the amount of lightning -- probably only see it 2-3 times a week now in aggregate. Still too much most likely, and I'll just take out another day from the possibility of when it comes on. If I had not had to write a series of different random number generators back in the dark ages of my college days, I probably wouldn't be as particular with this "lightning probability" thing as I am. ;-)
    6 -- Take at least a photo on the 1st of each month from the same location. I'm keeping a history of my tank that way. Should be cool as time goes on.
    7 -- Yes, I'm also BertL on AquaticLog, so you can find that sorta stuff there -- including all my tank diary, mistakes, trials, tribulations, etc of reef keeping beyond the world of Neptune. t
    Bert

  9. #9
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Colour Range on Radions

    Your LightStrike program will not work as expected. You can only use one DoW in an outlet program - the second If Time/If DoW pair will always override the first pair in your case.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  10. #10
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    Ah ok. Thanks Russ! Seems strange...

    So how would I get around that one do you think? Do you need two VOs? Can it be incorporated to the weather command you already have somehow?

    Also, what about the order of seasonal sequences?

    Thanks again!

  11. #11
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    Hi Dean and Russ M,

    I'm a Newbie here

    Very Impressive Work, Would this Program Work on Gen 2 Pro Radions..?

    I appear to be running into Problems... see graphic below

    Attachment 3126

    I've set up the Profiles, and Virtual Outlets, However the Logic for the LED_left and LED_right seems to throw a Wobbly any suggestions ?

    Is the Light strike Logic the Problem..?

    Any Help greatly appreciated

    Kind regards
    Paul

  12. #12
    Frequent Visitor BertL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffinpa View Post
    Hi Dean and Russ M,

    I'm a Newbie here

    Very Impressive Work, Would this Program Work on Gen 2 Pro Radions..?

    I appear to be running into Problems... see graphic below

    Attachment 3126

    I've set up the Profiles, and Virtual Outlets, However the Logic for the LED_left and LED_right seems to throw a Wobbly any suggestions ?

    Is the Light strike Logic the Problem..?

    Any Help greatly appreciated

    Kind regards
    Paul
    Paul, first, welcome to the forum.

    The Apex from a programming perspective does not know the difference between Radion models, so to it, Gen 1, 2, 3, Pro variations and new XR15 mini version all appear the same. What does happen is if you try to utilize a function like weather effects (clouds or lightning), and it's not available on a particular Radion model because of it's lack of hardware capabilities or it having downlevel EcoTech firmware, that function simply does not work if you program it in from your Apex. There is no error or other indication that comes back to the Apex or it's logs that you will see.

    BTW, something happened to your Attachment, and we can't see it, so can't try to help with that part of your question...
    Bert

  13. #13
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    Hey Paul - welcome! I'm new here too and still working through that code at mo. Am aware their are a few bugs I need to iron out so by all means see if you can find them alongside me - but don't trust it 100% just yet. I'll have another play and have couple ideas on adjustments but still need others to help me too

  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Donaldson View Post
    Ah ok. Thanks Russ! Seems strange...

    So how would I get around that one do you think? Do you need two VOs? Can it be incorporated to the weather command you already have somehow?

    Also, what about the order of seasonal sequences?

    Thanks again!
    In my sticky, the programming for pseudo-random weather included periods of just cloudy effects and cloudy effects with lightning (storm) - some days there would be just clouds, some days storms, some days neither.

    If you want it (your LightStrike) to have a hard schedule, you will need to break one or both If Time/If DoW pairs out into a VO then test the state of the VO(s) in the LightStrike outlet.

    As for the sequence of the If Sun statements - it looks ok, but I did not do a deep review. Enable logging for that outlet and let it run for a full day then review the outlet log and see if it runs sequence of profile in the desired order.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Hi Bert,Russ & Dean

    Thank you for the warm welcome, will be following this thread with great interest. (its excellent)

    I am unable post graphics currently

    Kind regards
    Paul

  16. #16
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    Hi Gents,

    Quick update

    The Logic works fine, once i remove the Lightstrike Logic...:-)

    I have enabled the Log,presumably when i enable the Log it will show what has been successful and what has not ?

    Quote Originally Posted by griffinpa View Post
    Hi Bert,Russ & Dean

    Thank you for the warm welcome, will be following this thread with great interest. (its excellent)

    I am unable post graphics currently

    Kind regards
    Paul

  17. #17
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    it should work if you just delete one of the pairs too - so you could have it just at night for example. (thanks Russ!)

    I am now trying to see what i can do with the data - as i didn't like hard transitions of colours - and as it stands it seems one or the other, which isn't really what i wanted... ;-/

  18. #18
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    can you mix logic with data does anyone know?

    So to take some of the above code and do the below

    i am presuming there is currently no way to control the weather variable intensity in tdata?

    [Radion]
    Fallback OFF
    If Outlet LunarCycle = ON Then Moonlight
    tdata 07:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,35,50,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 08:00:00,0,0,10,0,0,35,50,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 09:00:00,0,0,25,30,40,100,100,40,50,0,0,0,0
    tdata 12:00:00,0,0,40,40,60,100,100,50,80,0,0,0,0
    tdata 13:30:00,0,2,50,25,25,100,100,50,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 15:00:00,0,0,60,17,17,100,100,60,17,0,0,0,0
    tdata 16:30:00,0,3,40,25,25,100,100,40,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 18:30:00,0,0,30,50,15,80,80,30,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 18:45:00,0,0,25,80,50,0,0,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 19:00:00,0,0,20,70,10,0,0,5,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 19:30:00,0,0,20,45,0,0,100,50,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 20:30:00,0,0,15,0,0,30,100,80,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,0,50,20,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:30:00,0,0,6,0,0,11,12,0,10,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:59:00,0,0,0,0,0,4,6,0,2,0,0,0,0
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet NightStorm = ON Then Storm
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightSwitch = ON Then Sunlight
    If Outlet PhotoStop = ON Then Sunlight
    If Temp > 27.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

  19. #19
    Frequent Visitor CoralNerd's Avatar
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    Wow this is an intense thread... I have my lights...I thought I was doing good getting them hooked up before I got the tank. LOL

  20. #20
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean Donaldson View Post
    can you mix logic with data does anyone know?


    i am presuming there is currently no way to control the weather variable intensity in tdata?
    On the lighting scheduler screen, click the gear icon. Then enter the desired extra programming.

    No, not currently.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  21. #21
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    Hi Russ and Dean

    Is there a difference, between entering in Basic View "advanced tab" and the "gear icon in the scheduler screen"

    Is one for entering

    - Tdata (Basic View in the
    lighting scheduler screen) As this is where i entered the below Logic and this worked after removeing 3-4 lines (Light switch and Light strike)
    -Gear Icon (
    in the lighting scheduler screen)

    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Time 06:00 to 06:59 Then Dawn
    If Time 07:00 to 07:59 Then Sunrise
    If Time 08:00 to 09:59 Then Morning
    If Time 10:00 to 11:59 Then Daylight
    If Time 12:00 to 12:59 Then Midday
    If Time 13:00 to 13:59 Then Sunshine
    If Time 15:00 to 17:59 Then Afternoon
    If Time 18:00 to 18:59 Then Evening
    If Time 19:00 to 19:59 Then Sunset
    If Time 20:00 to 21:59 Then Twilight
    If Time 22:00 to 23:59 Then Moonlight
    If Temp > 27.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

    The logic above works fine for me once I removed 3 lines regarding (Light switch and Light strike.)

    Would be Nice to get the Light strike working...

    Regarding this alternative below mixture of tdata and logic

    [Radion_Left]
    Fallback OFF
    If Outlet LunarCycle = ON Then Moonlight
    tdata 07:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,35,50,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 08:00:00,0,0,10,0,0,35,50,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 09:00:00,0,0,25,30,40,100,100,40,50,0,0,0,0
    tdata 12:00:00,0,0,40,40,60,100,100,50,80,0,0,0,0
    tdata 13:30:00,0,2,50,25,25,100,100,50,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 15:00:00,0,0,60,17,17,100,100,60,17,0,0,0,0
    tdata 16:30:00,0,3,40,25,25,100,100,40,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 18:30:00,0,0,30,50,15,80,80,30,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 18:45:00,0,0,25,80,50,0,0,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 19:00:00,0,0,20,70,10,0,0,5,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 19:30:00,0,0,20,45,0,0,100,50,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 20:30:00,0,0,15,0,0,30,100,80,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,0,50,20,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:30:00,0,0,6,0,0,11,12,0,10,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:59:00,0,0,0,0,0,4,6,0,2,0,0,0,0
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet NightStorm = ON Then Storm
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightSwitch = ON Then Sunlight
    If Outlet PhotoStop = ON Then Sunlight
    If Temp > 27.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 030:00 Then OFF

    Where should this be placed, or do you keep it together...?

    Do you split the tdata into basic view, and logic to Gear Icon (lighting scheduler screen)

    @Dean,

    Also what Logic did you use for the New Virtual Outlets

    -If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    -If Outlet NightStorm = ON Then Storm
    -If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    -If Outlet LightSwitch = ON Then Sunlight
    -If Outlet PhotoStop = ON Then Sunlight

    Kind regards
    Paul

  22. #22
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    Ok - so i had to look at this in several ways due to the limitations.

    I want a gradual fade between colours - especially as i wanted a reef sunset going into a coral glow before twilight. The only way to do that is with tData. The times / seasonal variants make the colours "snap" between one colour and another. It's very unnatural. Its ok if you are ramping one colour up and down, but not across colour hues... to be honest thats a serious issue for me - as all the seasonal variants, intensities, weather probabilities... in fact all the logic has to be stripped out.

    So you either can choose colour or weather from a programming variant. And thats a huge sacrifice when i compare this to reefLink. You gain one, and lose another. ;-/

    That being said, I have got something near to what i wanted by some tight twists in the tdata and mixing with other logic. I have a sunset, an afternoon weather pattern, a fixed night storm, and a true lunar schedule for moonlights. Then a couple of demo switches - one for photos (which turns pumps off), one for storm, and one for basic lighting. And its a lot more elegant than the original "timed" version.

    (@Paul - i first of all went onto ecosmart live to get the basic colours and timings i wanted, as was much easier to test and preview there. I actually created so many variant shades before i realised the limits to numbers of profiles!! Not that it matters in TData so much i later figured... Once i tweaked, i then copied all the timings and colour references back over to Apex in the wizard. Then if you in the Lighting wizard area - the fourth little icon on the top left, swaps between wizard and advanced mode. you can do your programming in there, e.g copy and paste the radion_tdata section below, and you will see it updates the wizard for you)

    If you want, goto reeftronics and search for DeanDon - all the code is there. But the main bits are...


    [ Radion_Time ] <---- This was one i tried - and i hated all the hard colour snaps.
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Outlet LunarCycle = ON Then Moonlight
    If Time 07:00 to 07:59 Then Dawn
    If Time 08:00 to 08:59 Then Sunrise
    If Time 09:00 to 10:59 Then Morning
    If Time 11:00 to 11:59 Then Sunlight
    If Time 12:00 to 13:29 Then Midday
    If Time 13:30 to 14:59 Then Daylight
    If Time 15:00 to 16:29 Then Afternoon
    If Time 16:30 to 18:29 Then Evening
    If Time 18:30 to 18:44 Then Golden
    If Time 18:45 to 18:59 Then Sunset
    If Time 19:00 to 19:29 Then Reeflight
    If Time 19:30 to 20:29 Then Twilight
    If Time 20:30 to 22:59 Then Nightlight
    If Outlet NightStorm = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightSwitch = ON Then Highlight
    If Outlet PhotoReady = ON Then Highlight
    If Temp > 27.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 015:00 Then OFF

    -----
    Final Version (Note: as close as I can get without actually having the tank setup! ;-)

    [ ReturnPump ] ( 3_1 )
    Fallback ON
    Set ON
    If Outlet PhotoReady = ON Then OFF
    If Outlet PhotoTimer = ON Then ON
    If FeedB 015 Then OFF
    If FeedD 000 Then OFF
    Min Time 001:00 Then OFF

    [ StormPump ] ( 5_4 )
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If Time 16:45 to 17:15 Then ON
    If Outlet Storms = ON Then ON <--- not needed for tData version
    If Outlet NightStorm = ON Then ON
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then ON
    If Outlet PhotoReady = ON Then OFF
    If Outlet SumpHigh = ON Then ON
    If Outlet LeakDetect = ON Then OFF
    If FeedD 000 Then OFF

    [ LightShow ] ( Cntl_B4 )
    Set OFF

    [ LightSwitch ] ( Cntl_B5)
    Set OFF

    [ PhotoReady ] (Cntl_B6)
    Set OFF

    [ NightStorm ] ( Cntl_B7)
    Set OFF
    If Time 01:00 to 01:15 Then ON
    If DoW SMT-TF- Then OFF

    [ LunarCycle ] ( Cntl_B8)
    Set OFF
    If Moon 000/000 Then ON
    If Time 07:00 to 23:00 Then OFF <--- Added as lunar wouldn't turn off when tData kicked in again in morning


    [ PhotoTimer ] ( Cntl_C9 )
    Set OFF
    If Outlet PhotoReady = ON Then ON
    Defer 020:00 then ON
    Defer 000:05 Then OFF

    [ Radion_tData ]
    Fallback OFF
    If Outlet LunarCycle = ON Then Moonlight
    tdata 07:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,35,50,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 08:00:00,0,0,10,0,0,35,50,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 09:00:00,0,0,25,30,40,100,100,40,50,0,0,0,0
    tdata 12:00:00,0,0,40,40,60,100,100,50,80,0,0,0,0
    tdata 13:30:00,0,0,50,25,25,100,100,50,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 15:00:00,0,0,60,17,17,100,100,60,17,0,0,0,0
    tdata 16:30:00,0,2,40,25,25,100,100,40,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 16:55:00,0,3,37,25,25,100,100,40,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 17:00:00,0,2,37,25,25,100,100,40,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 17:30:00,0,0,35,25,25,100,100,40,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 18:30:00,0,0,30,50,15,80,80,30,25,0,0,0,0
    tdata 18:45:00,0,0,25,80,50,0,0,15,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 19:00:00,0,0,20,85,10,0,0,5,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 19:30:00,0,0,20,45,0,0,100,50,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 20:30:00,0,0,15,0,0,30,100,80,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:00:00,0,0,0,0,0,0,50,20,0,0,0,0,0
    If Outlet NightStorm = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Lightning
    If Outlet LightSwitch = ON Then Highlight
    If Outlet PhotoReady = ON Then Highlight
    If Temp > 27.0 Then OFF
    Min Time 015:00 Then OFF

    [ Powerhead_tData] <--- attempt to sync flow to colour changes - but this may need modifying.
    Fallback OFF
    Set Lagoon
    tdata 00:00:00,0,0,20,2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 06:00:00,0,0,20,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 10:00:00,0,0,50,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 13:30:00,0,0,60,7,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 15:30:00,0,0,60,8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 17:30:00,0,0,60,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 20:30:00,0,0,40,2,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:00:00,0,0,25,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    tdata 23:59:00,0,0,20,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0
    If Outlet PhotoReady = ON Then OFF
    If Outlet PhotoTimer = ON Then ON
    If Outlet Storms = ON Then Nutrient <--- not needed for tData version
    If Outlet NightStorm = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet LightShow = ON Then Nutrient
    If FeedA 000 Then Feed
    If FeedD 001 Then Slow
    If Outlet FeedNutrient = ON Then Nutrient
    If Outlet FeedSlow = ON Then Slow
    If Outlet FeedOff = ON Then OFF

    Relevant Profiles


    [ Lightning ] ( PF32 )
    Type: Weather
    Light Maximum Intensity: 0
    Cloudy Light Intensity: 5
    Cloud Duration: 1
    Cloudy Time: 5
    Probability of Lightning: 100
    Lightning Intensity: 100

    [ Moonlight ] ( PF26 )
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 1
    Blue intensity: 1
    Royal Blue intensity: 3
    Green intensity: 0
    Red intensity: 0
    UV intensity: 0
    Start overall intensity: 25
    End overall intensity: 25
    Ramp Time: 1

    [ Highlight ] ( PF27 )
    Type: Radion
    White intensity: 50
    Blue intensity: 40
    Royal Blue intensity: 40
    Green intensity: 70
    Red intensity: 40
    UV intensity: 30
    Start overall intensity: 70
    End overall intensity: 70
    Ramp Time: 1

  23. #23
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    Thx Dean

    Hi Dean,

    Your a gentleman,I am in the same boat, i think my tank will be live circa FY 15 Spring

    Paul

  24. #24
    NSI Member Krazie4Acans's Avatar
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    Hey Bert,

    Any chance I could get a hold of your spread sheet to look over the data? I built my own LED lights using the Radion LED pucks and my own driverboard and I am trying to come up with some programming for it that will allow me to mimic the Radion color profiles on my own lights. I've started compiling value data that I have found on various forums and here, but it's bits and pieces. I'd really like to start with something that has had some meat behind it already so that I can tune it even further for my setup. Any help is greatly appreciated. Krazie

  25. #25
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    Hello all,

    If you want really to mimic why are putting fixed time and now following the season table to sunrise/sunset?

    I am using this graph as a reference for my color and then I programmed it to follow the season table.



    You can check my programing @ http://www.reeftronics.net/programns...ember=rmgaspar

    But this is what a Radion Outlet looks like

    [ Radion_Left ] ( 4_17 )
    Program Type: Advanced
    Display Icon: Light B
    Logging: Disabled
    Program:
    Fallback OFF
    Set Radion_Dark
    If Outlet MoonLight = ON Then LED_Moon
    If Sun 000/-360 Then SR_DeepBlue
    If Sun 060/-360 Then SR_AllBlue
    If Sun 120/-360 Then SR_20K
    If Sun 180/-360 Then SR_14K
    If Sun 360/000 Then SD_DeepBlue
    If Sun 360/-060 Then SD_Custom
    If Sun 360/-120 Then SD_20K
    If Sun 360/-180 Then SD_18K
    If Sun 360/-240 Then SD_14K
    If Sun 180/-240 Then DT_14K
    If Outlet Radion_Test = ON Then Radion_Test

    All the best,
    Rui

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