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Thread: Cool Gadget for my Apex - TDS Meter

  1. #1
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    Cool Gadget for my Apex - TDS Meter

    I been contemplating this update for awhile and finally came across a deal.

    My RO system is outside and I don't check on it that often. So I came across a Hanna Instruments TDS controller. It measures the TDS, and then you dial in the setpoint you want. When your TDS reaches the preset level the controller closes a contact - Perfect connection to a Break Out Box.

    TDS_Meter_1.jpg

    tds_meter_2.jpg

    tds_meter_3.jpg

    The controller is on Amazon for $38, you can order the probe with a 4m cable (which is what I needed) for $74 - a standard cable probe HI7634 is about $40. A trip to Home Depot and I got a threaded T and 2 John Guest threaded connectors for about $8.

    For my application this is a great and reasonably priced tool.

    Dave B

  2. #2
    Frequent Contributor jrlamountain's Avatar
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    So this is turning off the ro system or just letting u know that ur membrane is getting old?

    Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

  3. #3
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    JrLaMountain,

    This is not controlling anything. I use too much water, and am too busy (and or lazy) to handle most maintenance tasks immediately.

    My RO system is buried under an outdoor counter. So I rarely see it, other than seeing it behind my 8g Kalk Mixer when I add Kalk every couple of weeks. This is just to notify me that I have more maintenance than needs to be done.

    Dave B

  4. #4
    Frequent Contributor jrlamountain's Avatar
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    thats cool. so it just send you a warning when your membrains are almost gone. cool idea

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    Can you actually see the tds number via the apex or just know when it his a predefined level?

  6. #6
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsoraci View Post
    Can you actually see the tds number via the apex or just know when it his a predefined level?
    The latter.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  7. #7
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    Sorry to necro an old thread, but I was searching to see if a TDS meter is something that was requested. I'd love to see a TDS meter that I could plug into a module and monitor so that I know when to change the filters/membrane.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by o2manyfish View Post
    I been contemplating this update for awhile and finally came across a deal.
    Dave B
    I was curious if this item was still working well for you. Certainly seems like it may be the best best still despite all the other devices that have come out recently.

  9. #9
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    RussM, my understanding is that every time you start the RO flow, there will be some "TDS creep". It could take up to 1/2 gallon for it to go back to zero. If that is the case, wouldn't you have a lot of false alarm? Maybe use a virtual outlet to watch the input for more than 30 mins before the outlet gets triggered?

    I wish neptune would make a TDS reader (3 points would be nice.)

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by derekc View Post
    RussM, my understanding is that every time you start the RO flow, there will be some "TDS creep". It could take up to 1/2 gallon for it to go back to zero. If that is the case, wouldn't you have a lot of false alarm? Maybe use a virtual outlet to watch the input for more than 30 mins before the outlet gets triggered?

    I wish neptune would make a TDS reader (3 points would be nice.)
    That's exactly what you would want to do. Use the VO to detect with a defer and but the VO in your email.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  11. #11
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    Damn it. This BL 983315 TDS controller is no longer available.
    And even if I can find a used one, I still need a 24VDC 3-way solenoid which I could not find.
    Oh well.

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    Still surprising to me there isn't a Neptune Systems RODI or at least an "Apex Ready" RODI with TDS meters, auto flush, and programming features. Wouldn't be cheap, but I know we would buy a number of them and we wouldn't be alone. Would take a bit of work from Neptune, but image if the setup wizard for the RODI could set reminders to replace the sediment prefilters, carbon blocks, and RO membrane after either X months or x gallons which ever came first.

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    I use My backup Brain to control my RODI. ( not a Backup anymore I got carried away)

    If the RODI water gets too low, she starts the Unit up, flushes the membrane for 20 mins then turns off once full. All done with brackout boxes and float switches.
    I did use an external timer as I was lazy, But with the defer command you could write code to remove my timer .

    She also controls temp, Monitors PH, and Salt of both RO and salted water. And as my water station is in the shed the Apex even runs a frost setting .

    To tidy all this up if Nepture would make a 24 Aux module with say 5 Aux ports . I could replace My bird's nests of power bricks and use the Neptune solenoids. Add a TDS to this module would not take that much work.

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    Not sure if you know this, but you can use a PM2 Module and a Conductivity Probe to monitor TDS and in turn use the Apex to control different devices.


    From the PM2 manual:

    PM2.JPG

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    Ohhh i missed that one !

    I will have a play the weekend see how it works..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    Not sure if you know this, but you can use a PM2 Module and a Conductivity Probe to monitor TDS and in turn use the Apex to control different devices.


    From the PM2 manual:

    PM2.JPG


    It will be interesting to see how accurate the probe is in conductivity sensing at RO levels. Would be interested to hear of anyone who has done this.

    Looking at the Hana site, for the price of a PM2/Salinity probe, there also other Hana TDS controllers which come into play.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
    It will be interesting to see how accurate the probe is in conductivity sensing at RO levels. Would be interested to hear of anyone who has done this.

    Looking at the Hana site, for the price of a PM2/Salinity probe, there also other Hana TDS controllers which come into play.
    While true, all the ones I saw, all said and done with the probe, come in around the same price point as a PM2 with probe.

    The Hanna would need to be connected to a Break Out Box, so you could only use a open/closed signal to control devices. You couldn't view Fusion or the Dash Board
    and get a TDS reading.
    Where as the PM2 would give actual TDS readings, and this could be used for more in depth controlling of devices.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    While true, all the ones I saw, all said and done with the probe, come in around the same price point as a PM2 with probe.

    The Hanna would need to be connected to a Break Out Box, so you could only use a open/closed signal to control devices. You couldn't view Fusion or the Dash Board
    and get a TDS reading.
    Where as the PM2 would give actual TDS readings, and this could be used for more in depth controlling of devices.
    I agree with everything you just said, my question would be: How accurate is the PM2/Salinity probe vs a Hanna TDS controller (which are lab grade and certified) as the salinity probe has a chequered history in-tank...

    You'd need to make some sort of holder for the Apex probe and glue in RO fittings etc unless you know of something off the shelf at all?

  19. #19
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    Agreed, however I think a lot of the issues that people report are related to the probe calibration (done incorrectly) vs the accuracy of the probe itself. The probe that Neptune sells is "Lab Grade".
    I currently have two tanks running, one with an Apex 2016 with the probe connected to it, and the second tank running an Apex Classic with a PM2.
    I have calibrated both, they are spot on to either of the 2 refractometers that I have and that are calibrated, and do not fluctuate more than .5 over the course of the day.
    This .5 variance in ppt translates to 0.679 uS/cm (conductivity). So I think if you calibrate the PM2 with the proper solution, it will be more than adequate to monitor TDS of RO/DI water.
    On the plus side, using the PM2 vs the Hanna, if the TDS level were to rise, you would get an alert, where the Hanna would only shut down a device. Once you get the alert, you could
    always verify by looking at the TDS monitor that came with the unit.

    As to a probe holder... this would work.

    Schedule 80 "T" 1/2" NPT (I know you're across the pond, but you get the idea!)

    sch-80-tee-fpt-fpt-fpt.jpg

    (2) 1/2" to 1/4" NPT reducer

    202593-Schedule-80-Reducing-Bushing.jpg

    Probe Holder

    Probe holder.jpg

    (2) RO/DI Tubing fittings

    Mur-loc.jpg

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Member No 1 View Post
    Agreed, however I think a lot of the issues that people report are related to the probe calibration (done incorrectly) vs the accuracy of the probe itself. The probe that Neptune sells is "Lab Grade".
    I currently have two tanks running, one with an Apex 2016 with the probe connected to it, and the second tank running an Apex Classic with a PM2.
    I have calibrated both, they are spot on to either of the 2 refractometers that I have and that are calibrated, and do not fluctuate more than .5 over the course of the day.
    This .5 variance in ppt translates to 0.679 uS/cm (conductivity). So I think if you calibrate the PM2 with the proper solution, it will be more than adequate to monitor TDS of RO/DI water.
    On the plus side, using the PM2 vs the Hanna, if the TDS level were to rise, you would get an alert, where the Hanna would only shut down a device. Once you get the alert, you could
    always verify by looking at the TDS monitor that came with the unit.

    As to a probe holder... this would work.

    Schedule 80 "T" 1/2" NPT (I know you're across the pond, but you get the idea!)

    sch-80-tee-fpt-fpt-fpt.jpg

    (2) 1/2" to 1/4" NPT reducer

    202593-Schedule-80-Reducing-Bushing.jpg

    Probe Holder

    Probe holder.jpg

    (2) RO/DI Tubing fittings

    Mur-loc.jpg


    Hmmm... Thanks for posting all the info! Certainly something to consider. Would the conductivity probe also require the temp probe as it does for salinity?

  21. #21
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
    Would the conductivity probe also require the temp probe as it does for salinity?
    There are not separate conductivity and salinity probes. The Apex measures conductivity. In the case of the Apex (2016), it converts the conductivity measurement into salinity expressed in units of PPT.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RussM View Post
    There are not separate conductivity and salinity probes. The Apex measures conductivity. In the case of the Apex (2016), it converts the conductivity measurement into salinity expressed in units of PPT.
    Hi Russ, I realise it's the same probe, however the Salinity/conductivity probe requires the temperature probe to give an accurate reading salinity. So what I'm trying to ask is if the Salinity/Conductivity probe is used in RO, if it will also need the temp compensation?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
    Hi Russ, I realise it's the same probe, however the Salinity/conductivity probe requires the temperature probe to give an accurate reading salinity. So what I'm trying to ask is if the Salinity/Conductivity probe is used in RO, if it will also need the temp compensation?
    It will improve accuracy, but conductivity is less sensitive to temperature at low ppt, so it's by no means required. If you get one for the improved accuracy, measuring air temp near the unit is gonna be close enough to get the compensation within reason.

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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by tastyfish View Post
    Hmmm... Thanks for posting all the info! Certainly something to consider. Would the conductivity probe also require the temp probe as it does for salinity?
    I'm not convinced the conductivity probe would accept typical RO/Float pressure of 30-40psi, and it can spike to full water pressure, in my house 65 psi. Obviously the schedule 80 would hold and maybe even the seal on the probe holder, but, I have accidentally tapped a Lab Grade probe a bit in inline on a ?COR 20 (<2PSI) and it burst and had water all over the floor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1jwampler View Post
    I'm not convinced the conductivity probe would accept typical RO/Float pressure of 30-40psi, and it can spike to full water pressure, in my house 65 psi. Obviously the schedule 80 would hold and maybe even the seal on the probe holder, but, I have accidentally tapped a Lab Grade probe a bit in inline on a ?COR 20 (<2PSI) and it burst and had water all over the floor.
    Not if you put the solenoid before the probe. Then pressure is less than 1 psi.

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