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Thread: battery back up

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post
    just to be clear. the blue wire is a aquabuss cable?
    im gonna have to go the the ultimate. unless i really should just use 1 circuit?
    question tho. curcuit A has the sensor for a power outage. but what about circuit B? it has no sensor and im planning on using a ups on each eb8 "2" so both eb8 will be on different circuts
    Slides from Apex Power Monitoring and Management presentation.pdf

    I would just use one UPS (some have optional battery packs to triple the life) and rearrange your EBs such that all critical life support you want on during an outage is on the EB connected to the UPS.

    You can use the non-ups eb8 name in a power statement to alert you and or cause an action from items on the UPS EB in the event that a fault trips that circuit. You can also get creative and set different scenarios for for EB 2 OFF and Apex power OFF (means full blown power outage) or EB 2 OFF and Apex power ON (means circuit 2 tripped) or EB 2 ON and Apex power OFF (means circuit 1 tripped).

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  2. #52
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Yes, the blue line in the powerpoint is the aquabus. I use the "ultimate" scenario; however, without the power adapter. I could not get my Apex to behave properly with a power adapter. Yes, you would need to use two separate house circuits. Each EB8 is rated for 15A and most house circuits are also 15A. Each EB8 can detect loss of power. If you use a UPS on each circuit/EB8 then you would have to use the power adapter. Otherwise, the Apex would not be able to detect the loss.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd View Post
    Yes, you would need to use two separate house circuits. Each EB8 is rated for 15A and most house circuits are also 15A. Each EB8 can detect loss of power.
    This is not a requirement, just good practice. If the total load between the two is less than 15A they could be run on one circuit safely. However, if only one circuit is used and a fault occurs, you lose power to both EBs just like a full blown house outage. If one of the EBs has a UPS backup, this isn't really a problem because it essentially becomes the same outage condition as two circuits.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  4. #54
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Agreed, but in my case I had other stuff on the circuit that was not Apex related. And it wasn't difficult for me to run a second circuit. I also assume worst case conditions.

  5. #55
    Frequent Visitor Todd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post
    what do you have as critical and non critical.
    im really hoping to use 1 ups per eb8 "2" so i can double the battery
    I have my pumps as critical, and just about everything else as non-critical. If power stays off too long, I have a generator I can bring into service.

    One other thing to consider. UPS units have breakers of their own that can trip and therefore lose power. It's a good idea to check for that as well. In other words, a UPS is not entirely uninterruptible.

  6. #56
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    im changing a 30amp 240v, originally i was just going with just 1 circuit but my dad wants to change it to 2 and both will be dedicate just to the tank. i like the idea of using a ups for each eb8. it will really help keep the load down when switching over and a longer run time. i also have a generator but its in a bad spot. if i have a full outage it will be stuck in my garage and no power to open the door haha.

    sounds like their is no way tho to sense a outage on circuit B????

    i guess if i really have too i can double the ups back up by daisy chain? or how do i expand the back up?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post

    i guess if i really have too i can double the ups back up by daisy chain? or how do i expand the back up?
    This is one example. Many others offer this capability too. Basically an extension battery for extra life on one UPS.

    http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produc...els-/P-BR24BPG

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    This is one example. Many others offer this capability too. Basically an extension battery for extra life on one UPS.

    http://www.apc.com/shop/us/en/produc...els-/P-BR24BPG

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.
    i run a 1500pro and the extension in the link above and my biocube 32 can run pumps and dosing for about seven hours

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garron View Post
    i run a 1500pro and the extension in the link above and my biocube 32 can run pumps and dosing for about seven hours
    Depends on how much power your pumps and whatnot draw. I have the non-pro version with no extension and mine runs for 12 hours, but I only run one pump at a little bit over minimum turn on.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  10. #60
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    [QUOTE=zombie;138451]Depends on how much power your pumps and whatnot draw. I have the non-pro version with no extension and mine runs for 12 hours, but I only run one pump at a little bit over minimum turn on.

    Wow so the apc really seems the way to go with a exspansion connected.

    My argument for 1 ups per eb8 is that it would be able to handle more of a load overall. But seems impossible for a 2 circuit set up. Maybe a Neptune future hmm.. lol
    Sorta my problem is the space. My computer cabinet can only fit up to 2 ups devices and barely still have room for the trident when it eventually comes out. Idk I’m gonna have to look into how it would look having it exposed.
    I will have to see is apc can do a 1000 with a 1000 expansion. Descions desicions

  11. #61
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    [QUOTE=jgarcia;138479]
    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    Depends on how much power your pumps and whatnot draw. I have the non-pro version with no extension and mine runs for 12 hours, but I only run one pump at a little bit over minimum turn on.

    Wow so the apc really seems the way to go with a exspansion connected.

    My argument for 1 ups per eb8 is that it would be able to handle more of a load overall. But seems impossible for a 2 circuit set up. Maybe a Neptune future hmm.. lol
    Sorta my problem is the space. My computer cabinet can only fit up to 2 ups devices and barely still have room for the trident when it eventually comes out. Idk I’m gonna have to look into how it would look having it exposed.
    I will have to see is apc can do a 1000 with a 1000 expansion. Descions desicions
    I would be very hesitant about using a 1000VA. Those are only good for the smaller of 600W or 8.3A which is very easy to overload. 1500VA is ideal for most people and occasionally a 2000VA is necessary if you are pushing the EB all the way to its limits.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  12. #62
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    ok well i tried to return the ones i got from amazon cause they are simulated sinewave but some how they returned my $$ and are letting me keep them? idk what to do with them now besides paper weights haha.
    so your saying that the most possible output of the 1000va is to low for critical systems even with a exspansion on it? im sorta troubled on space since im really hoping to put this in the apex computer cabinet and needs to fit with the trident when it comes out. thats why i was shooting for the 1000va. but i will get what ever you recommend is best and work around it. so many different model number im not shure which one to get

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post
    ok well i tried to return the ones i got from amazon cause they are simulated sinewave but some how they returned my $$ and are letting me keep them? idk what to do with them now besides paper weights haha.
    so your saying that the most possible output of the 1000va is to low for critical systems even with a exspansion on it? im sorta troubled on space since im really hoping to put this in the apex computer cabinet and needs to fit with the trident when it comes out. thats why i was shooting for the 1000va. but i will get what ever you recommend is best and work around it. so many different model number im not shure which one to get
    No. I'm saying it's unlikely that what you have plugged into the energy bar will be low enough wattage to not overload the UPS. The rating on the UPS cannot be exceeded under normal operating conditions because it's always running even when power isn't out (it just isn't discharging the battery). A heater and a few pumps is enough to overload 600W.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  14. #64
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    oh i see. i need to calculate total watts under normal conditions and stay under that. reading lots of reviews it sound like cyberpower is a better option. but lacks the expansion capability.
    from reviews the apc makes a chirping or mouse squeak sound?
    thank you for you help zombie your being a big help

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post
    oh i see. i need to calculate total watts under normal conditions and stay under that. reading lots of reviews it sound like cyberpower is a better option. but lacks the expansion capability.
    from reviews the apc makes a chirping or mouse squeak sound?
    thank you for you help zombie your being a big help
    They are both good. Cyberpower is a little more popular for consumer grade, but APC is the go-to company for industry.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  16. #66
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    ok so before i buy and make another miskate. would you agree to this one?
    https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...ave%2Bups&th=1

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post
    ok so before i buy and make another miskate. would you agree to this one?
    https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-CP...ave%2Bups&th=1
    Depends. What is the planned load for normal operation and power outage conditions and how long do you realistically need it to run for?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  18. #68
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    you dont make this easy haha. i see it has a load bar i can keep it within parameters like your saying to do and then only run critical components in a power outage. and use the second eb8 for none critical like you recomend.
    i hoping to get it to last near 8 hrs but 4 should be plenty to make it home from work or get my care taker on trips to get to my house and fire up the generator

  19. #69
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    I need specifics to run any of the required calcs. Ex I will have 1 300W heater, this brand return pump, this wattage lighting...etc under normal operation (you can list everything and I could tell you how to split it between the energy bars) and during power outage I will run this many of X brand pump at 5% intensity and I have these modules attached.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  20. #70
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    oh wow thats kinda new im possible for me

    150 watt cobalt neo therm heater. i do have 2
    core 20 main return x2 "will be ran as primary and secondary like we do in the piping industry"
    core 15 for skimmer
    modules: 4 fmm: 1 for atk"not powered and for ato top off from constant on ro system"not powered." 1 for leak detection"not powered." 1 for the ro system station "powered "emergency shut off sensored by flow meter" 1 for 3 flow sensors "not powered"
    asm module
    lsm module
    wxm module
    break out box module
    1 kink module "powered" "future"
    trident kit "eventually"
    dos doser "automatic water change"
    kessil h380 fuge lights
    3 xr radion pro lights
    3 computer fans coming from 3 1 link ports to a stepdown transformer. 1 for computer cabinet, 1 for sump cooling, 1 for hood each can be indivdually controlled
    camera in display
    camera in sump area.
    light bar to see in sump area "cheapy"

    4 mp10 power heads 2 connected to ecotech battery back up.... i hear un reliable tho?

  21. #71
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    What kind of powerhead pumps are you using? Vortechs, WAVs?

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  22. #72
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    i edited my post just as you messaged they are on the bottom

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgarcia View Post
    oh wow thats kinda new im possible for me

    150 watt cobalt neo therm heater. i do have 2
    core 20 main return x2 "will be ran as primary and secondary like we do in the piping industry"
    core 15 for skimmer
    modules: 4 fmm: 1 for atk"not powered and for ato top off from constant on ro system"not powered." 1 for leak detection"not powered." 1 for the ro system station "powered "emergency shut off sensored by flow meter" 1 for 3 flow sensors "not powered"
    asm module
    lsm module
    wxm module
    break out box module
    1 kink module "powered" "future"
    trident kit "eventually"
    dos doser "automatic water change"
    kessil h380 fuge lights
    3 xr radion pro lights
    3 computer fans coming from 3 1 link ports to a stepdown transformer. 1 for computer cabinet, 1 for sump cooling, 1 for hood each can be indivdually controlled
    camera in display
    camera in sump area.
    light bar to see in sump area "cheapy"

    4 mp10 power heads 2 connected to ecotech battery back up.... i hear un reliable tho?
    Unless you want to plug everything in energy bars for the clean look or just really want over the top redundancy, you actually only need one energy bar for all that stuff. Keep 2 mp10s on the echotech backup as a precautionary safeguard in the event the UPS fails and these can be plugged into the wall. Plug the other 2 mp10s, one of the CORs and the skimmer into the UPS battery outlets. The radions and power supplies for the FMM, computer fans and DOS can go in the wall. Remainder can go in EB outlets.

    During an outage if you set the 2 mp10s to 3% constant and run 1 cor at minimum percent you will get roughly 3 hours runtime. With just the mp10s, that goes up to about 4-5 hours.

    If you got this instead https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003Y24DEU...a-305434417134

    You could add a battery extension at a later date if you want it and it will give you 4 hours with cors and mp10s or 6-7 hours with just mp10s. With the battery extension, triple those runtimes.

    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can prove it mathematically.

  24. #74
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    good stuff. thanks for the help.
    silly question. that unit in the link is a pure sinewave?
    ive just got about everything hooked up. almost ready to be turned on. your right i am a bit over the top. ive turned into a control freak. but i really love how im able to control everything. piping a system like this is just normal for me from work and someone of the controls. we use flow meters shut offs ato ect. this is all just normal to me. but different. its much smaller im used to 12 of 42 inch pipe going up 60 story building or for power
    plants to provide the electricity.

  25. #75
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    i read this in the specs:
    waveform type Stepped Approximation to Sine Wave

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