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Thread: How to create a Latching outlet properly

  1. #1
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    How to create a Latching outlet properly

    This post is an addendum to what is listed in the comprehensive user manual regarding "latch" outlets. While the approach listed there does technically work, there are some issues that users may face without a few extra lines of code.

    Problems
    1. Upon a restart of the apex, a latch outlet has an indeterminate state since there is no Set OFF statement. As a result, the latch outlet could be set to ON even if the latching condition does not occur

    2. Some users may encounter what I call the "sticky latch" bug. This bug causes a latch outlet to turn on when set from off to auto even if the latch condition does not occur. This can sometimes be fixed by updating the firmware, but not in all cases.



    Solutions
    1. Force the latch to be in the off state for 1 min following a restart or power outage

    2. Use a reset VO to reset the latch outlet instead of the approach shown in the CRM. The latch can be reset by turning the reset VO to ON, wait for the latch to turn off, and then set the reset VO back to AUTO.



    Example

    This example is how to properly create a latch outlet for an ATO pump maximum run timer. The latch is set to turn on (to shut off the pump and keep it off) if the pump runs for more than 10 minutes at a time.

    Res_Latch (a virtual outlet)
    Set OFF

    ATO_Latch (a virtual outlet)
    If Outlet ATO_Pump = ON Then ON
    If Outlet Res_Latch = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex OFF 001 Then OFF
    Defer 010:00 Then ON

    ATO_Pump (the EnergyBar outlet for the ATO pump)
    (Other coding)
    If Outlet ATO_Latch = ON Then OFF



    You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

  2. #2
    Regular Vistor schadm's Avatar
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    Are Res_latch and ATO_latch two separate virtual outlets, meaning do not need create both? Also, what is the purpose of res_latch?

  3. #3
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    You need both if you are experiencing the bug. Res_latch is used to turn the latching outlet off.

  4. #4
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    Zombe,
    Can you take a look at my ATO latch outlet? I cant seem to get this to work for me.

    Res_Latch
    Set OFF

    ATO_Latch
    If Outlet 300ATO_5_2 = ON Then ON
    If Outlet Res_Latch = ON Then OFF
    If Power Apex Off 001 Then OFF
    Defer 000:20 Then ON

    ATO_5_2
    Fallback OFF
    Set OFF
    If 300ATO CLOSED Then ON
    If 300ATO OPEN Then OFF
    If SUMP_H OPEN Then OFF
    If Outlet ATO_Latch = ON Then OFF

    If it runs longer than 20 seconds I want the latch outlet to come on.

    Both
    Res_Latch
    ATO_Latch

    are VO outlets.

    Thanks in advance

  5. #5
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Looks right. Why do you say it isn't working?

  6. #6
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    Well I can put a temporary bucket under my ato, trigger the float switch, and it just keeps running.
    Going to my log after a couple try's it shows the latch switch did not turn on.

  7. #7
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    What outlet are you using, and are all the outlets set to auto?

  8. #8
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    Sorry,
    Busy day and just made it back to the PC.
    Yes all outlets are set to auto
    ATO_5_2 is the physical outlet

    300ATO is the renamed switch

  9. #9
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    Try it in outlet 4 or 8. I doubt your pump pulls enough wattage to turn off on a triac.

  10. #10
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    Sorry, I should have given you more specifics about my system, Its a 450 gallon system and I'm using a paworld 900 gph pump hooked to an eb4.

    I have also rebooted the system. I am running an earlier firmware.

  11. #11
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    Go to the Old Status Page - at the bottom, what does it says for Power Restored?
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  12. #12
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    Standby I'll check russ

  13. #13
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    Power restored None

  14. #14
    Master Control Freak RussM's Avatar
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    I had a hunch...

    You don't have a 12v AC adapter plugged into the Apex aux Power jack, right? I'm 98% sure that the issue is that the Power Monitor feature is enabled, but you don't have the necessary conditions for use of Power Monitor. Turn off Power Monitor using the Misc Setup page. At the moment, your Apex thinks it is a power loss state, so the If Power Apex line is always true, in turn keeping the latch VO off.
    Please do not send me PMs with technical questions or requesting assistance - use the forums for Apex help. PM me ONLY if the matter is of a private or personal nature. Thanks.

  15. #15
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    Just did that. I'll test it tomorrow it's getting late. Thanks for the help Russ! I'll post up tomorrow

  16. #16
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    Russ, that was it!
    Thank you, we are lucky to have all you gurus on the site here!

  17. #17
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    Zombie,
    First, thanks for all the help you provide to everyone.
    Second, thanks for the genius tag line about engineers. I suppose some of my accountant friends might feel the same.
    Third, if I'm experiencing the bug (which I probably am), is there any way to fix the bug directly (e.g., by reinstalling firmware) rather than by adding the complicate workaround? I have the current updated firmware as of 2/1/2019.
    Fourth, thank again.

  18. #18
    Frequent Contributor zombie's Avatar
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    This process is actually no longer needed due to the implementation of the When statement.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

  19. #19
    Regular Vistor
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie View Post
    This process is actually no longer needed due to the implementation of the When statement.
    Do you suggest looking at the thread "Programming for RODI system" for guidance, or somewhere else?

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