AWC/ATO

[Raul-7]

How can I program AWC and ATO using the same fill pump? This is a FW setup, BTW.

Assume drain pump is on outlet 1; and fill pump is on outlet 2.

I want to deactivate the heater and ATO program from turning on during an AWC.

How many virtual outlets do I need? One for AWC and one for ATO?


Let's start with the drain pump.

Outlet 1 [drain pump]
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON
If DOW S-TW-FS Then ON
If Time 16:00 to 14:58 Then OFF
If Sw2 [this is my low-switch where I want the draining pump to stop] OPEN Then OFF
If ATO ON Then OFF
If AWC ON Then ON


Is that even remotely right? I just got the Apex 3 days ago and have a hard time discerning between what belongs on a physical or virtual outlet.

[Raul-7]

I see the physical outlet doesn't accept the last 2 statements.

[RussM]

Wrong syntax.

If Outlet outletname = ...

[Raul-7]

But are the rest of the statements fine?

The first time statement; where it's ON for 1 hour [I set 1 hour as the timeframe not how long I want it on]. If the Sw2 activates will it override the time statement?

[zombie]

The rest of your logic is fine.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

Not bad for my first stab at programming an outlet.

[Raul-7]

Now for the fill portion.

Outlet 2
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet ATO = ON Then ON
If Outlet AWC = ON Then ON
If Outlet Drain = ON Then OFF
Defer 2:00 Then ON

Is that correct? I want to be inactive until outlet Drain stops draining.


Now what do I need on the ATO/AWC virtual outlets? That's what I fail to see? How do you know what belongs on the physical or virtual outlet?

[zombie]

Put Sw1 line after the if outlet lines.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

What about the virtual outlets?

Outlet AWC
Set OFF
If Outlet Drain = ON Then ON
If Outlet Fill = ON Then ON

Outlet ATO
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF
Defer 2:00 Then ON
Min Time 30:00 Then OFF

Is that even remotely right?

[zombie]

Now that I can see all of your code, I would use this. There were some redundancies the way you had it written before. Neither VO is required unless you want them for logging/emails.

Drain
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON
If DOW S-TW-FS Then ON
If Time 16:00 to 14:58 Then OFF
If Sw2 OPEN Then OFF

Fill
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet Drain = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

Now that I can see all of your code, I would use this. There were some redundancies the way you had it written before. Neither VO is required unless you want them for logging/emails.

Drain
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON
If DOW S-TW-FS Then ON
If Time 16:00 to 14:58 Then OFF
If Sw2 OPEN Then OFF

Fill
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet Drain = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

I see; the virtual out let can have all the programming or the physical. Then why are both needed in some applications, redundancy?

Thanks. Wouldn't I need a min statement to have it turn on after a set point like 30 minutes?

[zombie]

You could keep a min time then off statement as well if you want.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

You could keep a min time then off statement as well if you want.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

Then what about virtual outlets; why do I see there widespread use? How do you determine what belongs on the physical or virtual?

[zombie]

You use virtual outlets when you need an intermediate step that cant be done with the physical outlet.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

What if I do this:

Virtual
Outlet ATO
Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet Drain = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON
Min 030:00 Then OFF

Outlet AWC
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON [when I set it up I'll time how long it takes to drain the sump and shorten it to prevent disasters]
If DOW S-TW-FS Then ON
If Time 16:00 to 14:58 Then OFF
If Sw2 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet ATO = ON Then ON [not sure about this one - I want it to fill until Sw1]
Defer 002:00 Then ON [I want this statement to wait 2 minutes to allow the water from the drainage to fill up the sump once the return stops]

Physical outlets
Drain
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then ON
If Outlet ATO = ON Then OFF

Fill
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then ON
If Outlet ATO = ON Then ON

Heater
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Temp < 79 Then ON
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF

Return
Fallback ON
Set ON
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF

[zombie]

While technically you could use that type of approach, it doesnt buy you anything and in fact slows down your processor and pushes you that much closer to the "1% club" bugs that only happen to those of us with numerous modules and outlets.

I find it is always to your advantage to use the KISS principle whenever possible.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

I want to keep it simple but my AWC seems complex [at least in my eyes]. Others rely on timed draining; but I'd rather use a low float.

Does the ATO portion cover both the filling during AWC and regular ATO - or should I separate those two?

Because to me it seems [my logic is probably flawed] that once it reaches the low-sensor the float will stop the AWC program, but it will not refill.

[zombie]

The way I wrote it in post #10, it will do this. I am assuming you added the min time 30 statement to the fill.

On monday and thursday at 3pm, the drain pump will actuvate to drain water out of the sump until switch 2 is activated. Once this has occured, 2 minutes later (or 30 minutes after the drain started), the fill pump will turn on for long enough for switch 2 to close and then the drain pump will activate again until switch 2 opens. 30 minutes later, the fill pump will dill the water in the tank until switch 1 opens. For any time period other than what is described above, it will maintain the water level at the sw1 height.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

The way I wrote it in post #10, it will do this. I am assuming you added the min time 30 statement to the fill.

On monday and thursday at 3pm, the drain pump will actuvate to drain water out of the sump until switch 2 is activated. Once this has occured, 2 minutes later (or 30 minutes after the drain started), the fill pump will turn on for long enough for switch 2 to close and then the drain pump will activate again until switch 2 opens. 30 minutes later, the fill pump will dill the water in the tank until switch 1 opens. For any time period other than what is described above, it will maintain the water level at the sw1 height.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

Wait. Isn't M and Th the off days?

Why would it drain multiple times in that 1 hour window? How can I make it one drain session, not multiple.

The min time is for it to remain OFF for 30 minutes before becoming active again; so the ATO doesn't activate until after 30 minutes.

[Raul-7]

Virtual
Outlet ATO
Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet AWC_Fill = ON Then OFF
If Outlet AWC_Drain = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON
Min 030:00 Then OFF

Outlet AWC_Fill
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON
If DOW S-TW-FS Then ON
If Time 16:00 to 14:58 Then OFF
If Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
If Sw2 CLOSED Then ON
If Outlet ATO = ON Then OFF
If Outlet AWC_Drain = ON Then ON
Defer 015:00 Then ON [I would manipulate the time by calculating how long it takes to drain from Sw1 to Sw2 and enter it here?]

Outlet AWC_Drain
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON
If DOW S-TW-FS Then ON
If Time 16:00 to 14:58 Then OFF
If Sw2 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet Outlet ATO= ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON [I want this statement to wait 2 minutes to allow the water from the drainage to fill up the sump once the return stops]

[zombie]

Wait. Isn't M and Th the off days?

Why would it drain multiple times in that 1 hour window? How can I make it one drain session, not multiple.

The min time is for it to remain OFF for 30 minutes before becoming active again; so the ATO doesn't activate until after 30 minutes.

So you want it to do an AWC every day except for monday and thursday?

I can show you how to only drain once (overall volume will be almost identical anyway) after you answer the first question.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

So you want it to do an AWC every day except for monday and thursday?

I can show you how to only drain once (overall volume will be almost identical anyway) after you answer the first question.

You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

Yes, I want waterchanges everyday except M and Th. But I'd like to keep the virtual outlets.


I don't need that many virtual outlets in this setup anyways since it's a breeding rack and I don't control salinity, etc.

[zombie]

Then I would do it like this. I wouldnt use the ATO virtual outlet as it hold no use.

AWC (VO)
Set OFF
If Time 14:59 to 15:59 Then ON
If DOW -M--T-- Then OFF

Drain
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then ON
If Sw2 OPEN Then OFF

Fill
Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF
If Outlet AWC = ON Then OFF
Defer 002:00 Then ON
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF



You might be an engineer if...You have no life and can PROVE it mathematically.

[Raul-7]

But my Sw1 is my normal level; can I use the same switch for ON and OFF commands?

If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF

?

[RussM]

But my Sw1 is my normal level; can I use the same switch for ON and OFF commands?

If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw1 OPEN Then OFF
If Sw3 OPEN Then OFF

This:

If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON
If Sw1 OPEN Then OFF

and this:

Set OFF
If Sw1 CLOSED Then ON

are functionally the same; the latter is the preferred logic.